NFR 2021/22 NFL Football

Non-fishing related
Pay to lose, will be interesting to see what happens with this - should be a major scandal, ie, integrity of the game and all that.



Jackson says he can document his allegations.

Cheers
 
Protect The Shield....sort of surprised this hasn't been outed before.

After 'bountygate', is it really that unexpected that a team tanked for draft choices ?
The NBA realized it years ago, hence their draft lottery.
Big money...when it's out there for the taking someone will take it.
 
Wow. Honestly didn't give Cinci much of a chance in this one. Boy was I wrong. They played a tough, gritty game. My hats off to em.

It must feel good to be a Cinci fan. Team has the ingredients to be good for a number of years to come.
My wife is a lifelong, die hard Bengals fan. When they won, she was speechless for 10 minutes with happy tears ... they haven't gotten this far since she was a freshman in college
 
My wife is a lifelong, die hard Bengals fan. When they won, she was speechless for 10 minutes with happy tears ... they haven't gotten this far since she was a freshman in college
My in-laws live in Cinci (well, across the Ohio in northern Kentucky to be precise) and are long-time season ticket holders. Texting with them during the game was both a blast and very stressful! We are all-in like if it was the 'hawks. My SIL was crying after the game. I get it. They are long-suffering fans and the Bengals won just 6 games over the past 2 seasons. Who Dey?!
 
My wife is a lifelong, die hard Bengals fan. When they won, she was speechless for 10 minutes with happy tears ... they haven't gotten this far since she was a freshman in college
I lost $20.00 on them the last time they were in the super bowl
 
There's no reason Gardner Minshew shouldn't be a starter in the NFL besides that the league's limp-dicked GM's don't want a 6th rounder showing up there precious 1st round bust QB. I'm (unfortunately) a Jaguars fan and all this talk of tanking is really making me pissed about Glennon and Luton starting games in 2020 over Minshew so we could draft 1st round bust Trevor Lawrence instead of winning games.
 
Lots of bad optics for the NFL right now. Will be very interesting to see how this all plays out.

I just can't help but feel this doesn't end up going well for Flores. I don't know much about him overall but was pretty surprised when he was fired. Seems like Miami was a scrappy team all year in spite of Tua as QB and what seemed like a lack of star talent. Always kinda chocked that up to strong coaching.

The tanking thing is very interesting, especially with the gambling aspect. Seems like there's lots of room for corruption there. I keep imagining being a gambler armed with some inside knowledge of teams tanking.
 
Everyone has known about tanking. Shit, the 2011 Colts went with Curtis Painter at QB and they had plenty of time to get a better player. "Tanking for Tua" and "suck for Luck" were widely known things. this is why the NBA has a draft lottery.

I find it interesting that the tanking allegations from Flores that are being spoken about mostly. They represent supporting reasons for his law suit regarding racist hiring practices. They are not the lead story at all. Mr. Flores led the Dolphins to back to back winning seasons for the first time in 20 years. His first season, he won 5 games with a roster that was constructed to lose. He deserved an extension and a raise not dismissal.

He was then overlooked by the first 4 teams with openings. None of them hired him although he is clearly the best candidate available. He was asked to interview when the outcome of the process was already known. Two of the teams hired other former Patriot assistants like he is. One of them has no HC experience, the other has a career record of 11-17 and his team got demonstrably worse in his tenure. Both are white. the Bears hire a random white coordinator with no NFL HC experience. The Broncos did similar. Flores just turned around a dismal franchise. He did it with a QB that the GM and owner wanted but he didn't. Imagine if the Dolphins had drafted Herbert as Flores wanted. One would think that if you were the Bears you would just offer him the job and get out of the way. The man has actually just done the thing that you want your coach to do, that is turn around a bad franchise with a young QB. The same is true in Houston, Denver, New York etc.

The most damning evidence is also the easiest to find. There is presently 1 black HC in the NFL, Mike Tomlin. Tomlin is an excellent coach. He is a super bowl champion. His team is always competitive. No one else is hiring black coaches. I wonder why? Black NFL coaches get fired 1 year earlier than their white counterparts on average. They are far less likely to be rehired as well. Consider this nugget from a Five-Thirty-Eight article on the subject written 2 years ago: "According to data from Arizona State’s Global Sport Education and Research Lab, 29.5 percent of newly hired white head coaches between the 2009 and 2018 seasons had been the head coach of another team, while just 8.3 percent of coaches of color fit the same description." If Tomlin left Pittsburgh, would someone hire him? Of course they would, right? I am not sure that he would.

Consider that Jim Caldwell went 9-7 his last 2 years in Detroit. Since 200 the Lions have had a winning record 5 times. Three of those times Caldwell was the coach. Since his firing they have won 17 games in 4 years with 3 white HC's. Caldwell won 18 games in his first 2 years alone. One would think that a coach that had a winning record for the preposterously poorly run lions would get a job right? He is unemployed. Caldwell made a superbowl with he Colts. Holds the record for best record by a rookie HC. He was fired in Indy after they intentionally sucked for luck, just as Hugh Jackson (a black coach) was fire after 1 year when the Browns tanked. Caldwell has a 64-54 career record in the NFL including the 2011 2-14 season when the Colts management was obviously tanking.

There have been analysis of black coaches vs. white coaches and how their teams did vs. their teams expected outcomes. Black HC's generally do better than their white counterparts. It's a hard argument to make though because less than 25 head coaching vacancies have been filled with black coaches after going through full interview processes. In these sorts of assessments, N matters a whole lot. N<25 is not terribly accurate. And that is the problem. The N is kept low by the NFL owners.

Tanking has been known about for a long time. It seems like it's become the lead story now that someone sued the league over blatant racist hiring practices. Seems like buying the lead to me. We have not paid attention to it for all this time until a brave guy stands up and shows us all something far less comfortable to be angry about. If we are going to be upset about tanking maybe we should at least acknowledge that management and ownership tend to feel comfortable blaming black coaches when they do it (Flores, Jackson, Caldwell) and firing them after so that their white successor can reap the benefits including the guy who thought that this play would work:

 
I hope i can be here. I just wanted to say that I’m conflicted about trading Russell. Of course if we could get Josh Allen. I watch the post game interviews with the players and I’ve noticed that quite a few of the players are giving glory to God and Jesus (Lockett and Jordan Brooks are just two i can think of right now) and i can’t help think that Russell has been witnessing in the locker room and that may be causing some rifts with other players. Everyone knows that Jesus doesn’t watch the NFL…. (Or as I’ve said before. Maybe He does and that’s why the world is fucked up .)
I’ve had two born again roommates back in the day and they were relentless trying to get me saved. Russell strikes me as believing he is God’s Deputy and is trying to get many team members saved too.
You go girl! Claiming that phony god bullshit always offended me. If there was a god why would he/she/it favor their sorry asses over someone else? The implication that god selectively favors one team over the other is ridiculous-unless of course you assume that god is a Fan Boi-say a Raider fan for instance.

I see Russell as a two decade old pickup truck with 280,000 miles. Good in it's day but overdue for replacement. And this time with a full sized model, not a Ranger....
 
Everyone has known about tanking. Shit, the 2011 Colts went with Curtis Painter at QB and they had plenty of time to get a better player. "Tanking for Tua" and "suck for Luck" were widely known things. this is why the NBA has a draft lottery.

I find it interesting that the tanking allegations from Flores that are being spoken about mostly. They represent supporting reasons for his law suit regarding racist hiring practices. They are not the lead story at all. Mr. Flores led the Dolphins to back to back winning seasons for the first time in 20 years. His first season, he won 5 games with a roster that was constructed to lose. He deserved an extension and a raise not dismissal.

He was then overlooked by the first 4 teams with openings. None of them hired him although he is clearly the best candidate available. He was asked to interview when the outcome of the process was already known. Two of the teams hired other former Patriot assistants like he is. One of them has no HC experience, the other has a career record of 11-17 and his team got demonstrably worse in his tenure. Both are white. the Bears hire a random white coordinator with no NFL HC experience. The Broncos did similar. Flores just turned around a dismal franchise. He did it with a QB that the GM and owner wanted but he didn't. Imagine if the Dolphins had drafted Herbert as Flores wanted. One would think that if you were the Bears you would just offer him the job and get out of the way. The man has actually just done the thing that you want your coach to do, that is turn around a bad franchise with a young QB. The same is true in Houston, Denver, New York etc.

The most damning evidence is also the easiest to find. There is presently 1 black HC in the NFL, Mike Tomlin. Tomlin is an excellent coach. He is a super bowl champion. His team is always competitive. No one else is hiring black coaches. I wonder why? Black NFL coaches get fired 1 year earlier than their white counterparts on average. They are far less likely to be rehired as well. Consider this nugget from a Five-Thirty-Eight article on the subject written 2 years ago: "According to data from Arizona State’s Global Sport Education and Research Lab, 29.5 percent of newly hired white head coaches between the 2009 and 2018 seasons had been the head coach of another team, while just 8.3 percent of coaches of color fit the same description." If Tomlin left Pittsburgh, would someone hire him? Of course they would, right? I am not sure that he would.

Consider that Jim Caldwell went 9-7 his last 2 years in Detroit. Since 200 the Lions have had a winning record 5 times. Three of those times Caldwell was the coach. Since his firing they have won 17 games in 4 years with 3 white HC's. Caldwell won 18 games in his first 2 years alone. One would think that a coach that had a winning record for the preposterously poorly run lions would get a job right? He is unemployed. Caldwell made a superbowl with he Colts. Holds the record for best record by a rookie HC. He was fired in Indy after they intentionally sucked for luck, just as Hugh Jackson (a black coach) was fire after 1 year when the Browns tanked. Caldwell has a 64-54 career record in the NFL including the 2011 2-14 season when the Colts management was obviously tanking.

There have been analysis of black coaches vs. white coaches and how their teams did vs. their teams expected outcomes. Black HC's generally do better than their white counterparts. It's a hard argument to make though because less than 25 head coaching vacancies have been filled with black coaches after going through full interview processes. In these sorts of assessments, N matters a whole lot. N<25 is not terribly accurate. And that is the problem. The N is kept low by the NFL owners.

Tanking has been known about for a long time. It seems like it's become the lead story now that someone sued the league over blatant racist hiring practices. Seems like buying the lead to me. We have not paid attention to it for all this time until a brave guy stands up and shows us all something far less comfortable to be angry about. If we are going to be upset about tanking maybe we should at least acknowledge that management and ownership tend to feel comfortable blaming black coaches when they do it (Flores, Jackson, Caldwell) and firing them after so that their white successor can reap the benefits including the guy who thought that this play would work:



I dont really see the tanking thing as being a distraction, but perhaps some are using it to that end. As far as tanking being known for years, there's a big difference between assumption and knowing.

This is the first time I can recall that a prominent NFL figure (more than one in this case) has flat out come out and made it public. "Suck for Luck" was hardly an NFL sanctioned slogan. I remember fans clamoring for all that, but as best as I can remember I never once heard a player, coach, or exec admit it on any level. There's a big difference between fans making signs to bring to the game, and head coaches stating that owners were flat out offering to pay them to lose. I think most of us have assumed this sort of thing could be going on, but then again I've seen a lot of games where the loser of the game would receive the number 1 draft pick and never felt like the players were trying any less. Which is part of the interest to me....how does an NFL team physically go about tanking a game or a season? My guess is that it would almost have to come from the coaches or above, as it sure seems like tanking is simply not in the wheelhouse of most professional athletes, and in the case of football especially it sure seems like in most cases it would be pretty obvious, (and perhaps physically dangerous), for most players to truly phone it in. I suppose kickers would be the obvious and easiest place to employ a tanking strategy, but then again considering how much players are making these days its hard to imagine many players being willing to play less than their best considering that their contracts are tied to performance.

Coaches and play calling is probably more likely. Maybe those strange time management calls, or 4th down play calls that we all wonder about. And obviously GMs and coaches make decisions regarding the talent on the roster and the field that affects team performance so it could definitely come from that end easily enough. Still, considering your stats about black coaches being rehired and such makes me wonder how many coaches would purposely under perform if they felt their chances of getting another job after a shitty season/seasons would be low.

Definitely think that the racial side of things is FAR more important here, but I find the tanking thing interesting as hell on many levels.

To me Flores seemed like a damn good coach, and it's hard for me to believe that race isn't a major issue here. I dont know how the NFL fixes this issue, but something has to be done. The Rooney Rule clearly isn't working and is easily circumvented.
 
My wife is a lifelong, die hard Bengals fan. When they won, she was speechless for 10 minutes with happy tears ... they haven't gotten this far since she was a freshman in college
They could never draft a good QB. All they ever got were losers. Joe Borrow if he stays healthy will be a winner.
 
Back
Top