Tips on heavy water nymphing

[SilverFly]

So while I've been having some success with migrating chinook and coho in some nasty pocket water lately, I'm definitely open to suggestions on how to improve on it. Basically I see this as scaled up high stick trout nymphing, just in extremely turbulent water ... and really large "trout".

I've been doing OK with floating lines, long leaders, weighted flies, and shot if necessary. But wondering if a heavy tip with short leader might be a better route. Probably one of my tuna lines. Likely the 600gr Leviathan being the only one I'd want to risk in what is essentially kayak whitewater.

Open to any thoughts/tips/suggestions.

 

[clarkman]

Honestly, in that water, if you use any sinking line or sink tip, you're probably gonna lose your line (or part of it) pretty quick. I can't see any benefit from a "getting the fly down" side of things either.

Even with regular trout pocket water, high sticking is the best way to fish it most effectively. With what your doing in upsizing everything is likely gonna be the best way to get it done on a fly rod.

 

[SilverFly]

Honestly, in that water, if you use any sinking line or sink tip, you're probably gonna lose your line (or part of it) pretty quick. I can't see any benefit from a "getting the fly down" side of things either.

Even with regular trout pocket water, high sticking is the best way to fish it most effectively. With what your doing in upsizing everything is likely gonna be the best way to get it done on a fly rod.

So, what you're saying is I'm over-thinking this.

 

[clarkman]

So, what you're saying is I'm over-thinking this.

Totally doesn't sound like you....

 

[G_Smolt]

If you're using a tapered leader, switch it out for a level section 2# heavier than yer tippet. Slap on a couple shot and embrace the fact the floaty thing at the end of your line is a bobber, not an indicator.

There isn't a line made that can outsink a couple 3/0 shot on the right leader setup

 

[SilverFly]

If you're using a tapered leader, switch it out for a level section 2# heavier than yer tippet. Slap on a couple shot and embrace the fact the floaty thing at the end of your line is a bobber, not an indicator.

There isn't a line made that can outsink a couple 3/0 shot on the right leader setup

Agreed. Not using a floaty thing though. Also just a straight 4' - 6+' leader of 20# Maxima.

Nothing against indicators. Just not practical with the wild current speed/direction changes, and extreme depth variations. There are a lot of buckets behind submerged boulders that require well-timed lifts/drops to avoid getting hung, then get the fly above the fish, but not in them. Thinking I might add a tag of bright egg yarn 3' or so above the shot to act as a submersible strike indicator. One second of advanced warning on a take would be a big advantage.

 

[G_Smolt]

Or a couple feet of hi-vis mono between line and #20. Red amnesia comes to mind

 

[PhilR]

So, what you're saying is I'm over-thinking this.

when Clarkman says you're overthinking, you're probably overthinking.

And I agree. I got my most recent steelhead after I took my bobber off, added weight, and basically euro-ed through some slots. High sticking is probably the way to go.

 

[Pink Nighty]

My thoughts would be Flouro in the thinnest possible diameter. Wants to sink and offers the least resistance to the current.

My other thought is it appears you're killing it in a difficult fishery, you might not want to change a thing.

 

[SilverFly]

when Clarkman says you're overthinking, you're probably overthinking.

And I agree. I got my most recent steelhead after I took my bobber off, added weight, and basically euro-ed through some slots. High sticking is probably the way to go.

Lol. There's a reason we're friends.

Seems like I've fished this way off and on for 40+ years. When exactly did no-indi, high-sticking become "Euro" nymphing? Just curious.

 

[SilverFly]

My thoughts would be Flouro in the thinnest possible diameter. Wants to sink and offers the least resistance to the current.

My other thought is it appears you're killing it in a difficult fishery, you might not want to change a thing.

I was using FC, but blew through most of my tuna leader stock, which was already running low. I'll pick up another spool of 20#. Need more shot and some lead eyes anyway.

 

[clarkman]

My thoughts would be Flouro in the thinnest possible diameter. Wants to sink and offers the least resistance to the current.

In theory, yes...and yes for most waters. The water he's fishing has so many boulders that are great at cutting through line and leaders. One almost has to think more about abrasion resistance there. A bit of a catch/22 when fishing there.

 

[Evan B]

Yeah I wouldn't run any kind of sinking line/tip for pocket water. In that type of water, getitng straight down and fast is always my priority, and sink tips are better for lateral sinking like for swinging or slower water. More vertical sinking, you can't beat the dirtbaggy stuff like lead and tungsten splitshot/bead heads.

 

[Tom Butler]

When exactly did no-indi, high-sticking become "Euro" nymphing? Just curious.

I've wondered that as well, and probably why I like to fish that way. The modern longer rods and especially the jig hooks and beads have been a nice addition. Looks to me like you have been doing well, I don't think I could add anything..

 

[SilverFly]

My other thought is it appears you're killing it in a difficult fishery, you might not want to change a thing.

Thanks, but losing 3/4 of fish hooked feels more like I'm getting killed. Although I was going on the assumption of barbless rules, which turns out to not be the case. Normally that would be my preference, but these are almost all hatchery fish (clipped or not) so I'm ready to take the gloves off.

 

[Pink Nighty]

Thanks, but losing 3/4 of fish hooked feels more like I'm getting killed. Although I was going on the assumption of barbless rules, which turns out to not be the case. Normally that would be my preference, but these are almost all hatchery fish (clipped or not) so I'm ready to take the gloves off.

Oh you want tips on how to land them? Got nothing for you. My gut says 1/4 out of that water is probably pretty damn good.

 

[Chucker]

This is a bit of a digression. There used to be some fisheries in the north of Scotland where (Atlantic) salmon would stack up in pocket water in the lower part of the river, basically waiting for the tide start running. The local “experts” would fish for these fish using a big, heavy, 15’ spey rod, with about 6’ of line out of the tip, and just skate a little fly back and forth in the surface film over the fishes heads until one came up and smacked it. (They would then haul the fish out like jackpoling tuna. It was brutal.) I never saw anybody high stick nymph it. I don’t know if this was due to the rules, whether it was frowned upon by the locals, or just that no one had though of it at the time. I think it might have worked, though I have never caught an Atlantic salmon by nymphing, nor ever heard about anyone doing it. I also wonder if the short line skating technique would work on coho. I have never tried. Every time I have been in a situation that I could have tried, I have been having too much fun catching fish to switch to something different.

 

[SilverFly]

This is a bit of a digression. There used to be some fisheries in the north of Scotland where (Atlantic) salmon would stack up in pocket water in the lower part of the river, basically waiting for the tide start running. The local “experts” would fish for these fish using a big, heavy, 15’ spey rod, with about 6’ of line out of the tip, and just skate a little fly back and forth in the surface film over the fishes heads until one came up and smacked it. (They would then haul the fish out like jackpoling tuna. It was brutal.) I never saw anybody high stick nymph it. I don’t know if this was due to the rules, whether it was frowned upon by the locals, or just that no one had though of it at the time. I think it might have worked, though I have never caught an Atlantic salmon by nymphing, nor ever heard about anyone doing it. I also wonder if the short line skating technique would work on coho. I have never tried. Every time I have been in a situation that I could have tried, I have been having too much fun catching fish to switch to something different.

Frowned on or not, that would be awesome to watch. Yeah, I've had a somewhat similar thoughts with these late run coho. Years go I cast a polar shrimp into a deep bucket that no longer exists on this stretch. It no more hit the water and sank a few inches before a 15# chromer rose out of the shadows and smashed it. Actually broke the surface. Depending on levels, there are a couple of wider/shallower spots that I'm convinced they would smash a skated wog or similar surface fly.