The idea that humanity, or even civilization is only 20,000 years old is hilarious at this point.
NFR "The Hypocrite" TGR film about advocacy/fossil fuels/Outdoor State
- Thread starter adamcu280
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Non-fishing related
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Rob Allen
Life of the Party
So those who do the worst of each thing are the ones who should shoulder all the blame?
Gangs and drug dealers are responsible for almost all violent crime. We could chase that way of thinking anywhere we want and we'd all be the only ones guilty of some particular crime against society.
VMP
Steelhead
Change is hard. The first step to solving a problem is recognizing that one exists, and we can't even agree that there is a problem nor that our own species/society is responsilble for it, even when science overwhelmingly supports both facts!
The devil is in the details... for details and background, just examples below, lots of primary scientific literature publicly available at this point in history:
What does past climate change tell us about global warming?
Natural climate change in the past proves that climate is sensitive to an energy imbalance. If the planet accumulates heat, global temperatures will go up. Currently, CO2 is imposing an energy imbalance due to the enhanced greenhouse effect. Past climate change actually provides evidence for our...
skepticalscience.com
Flymph
Steelhead
I will never trust a private, profit-driven company, with my Social Security check or my Medicare benefits. Are you serious??? I assume you are not there yet but I think you will be changing your tune, considerably when your fixed retirement budget relies on these two Government benefits!
The Koch brothers have the best interests of the people!!! I defy you to find a single shred of evidence to provide truth to this statement. While you are looking, take a look at the coal mining areas that have been devastated and left for near dead while the K-boys reaped the billions!
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I don’t disagree with anything outside of the fact that the science is not settled on our past. Anthropology is changing its stance on how long modern humans have been around, and it’s changing slowly in relation to recent discoveries using new technology.Change is hard. The first step to solving a problem is recognizing that one exists, and we can't even agree that there is a problem nor that our own species/society is responsilble for it, even when science overwhelmingly supports both facts!
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The devil is in the details... for details and background, just examples below, lots of primary scientific literature publicly available at this point in history:
What does past climate change tell us about global warming?
Natural climate change in the past proves that climate is sensitive to an energy imbalance. If the planet accumulates heat, global temperatures will go up. Currently, CO2 is imposing an energy imbalance due to the enhanced greenhouse effect. Past climate change actually provides evidence for our...skepticalscience.com
When I see a website that has a mission of debunking “climate misinformation,” I’m always skeptical. The scientific process allows alternative positions and dialog. Your source does not.Change is hard. The first step to solving a problem is recognizing that one exists, and we can't even agree that there is a problem nor that our own species/society is responsilble for it, even when science overwhelmingly supports both facts!
View attachment 104487
View attachment 104489
The devil is in the details... for details and background, just examples below, lots of primary scientific literature publicly available at this point in history:
What does past climate change tell us about global warming?
Natural climate change in the past proves that climate is sensitive to an energy imbalance. If the planet accumulates heat, global temperatures will go up. Currently, CO2 is imposing an energy imbalance due to the enhanced greenhouse effect. Past climate change actually provides evidence for our...skepticalscience.com
Change is the only thing that is certain in life...
There are very interesting new discoveries about our past being made that I find interesting.
GIven the history of discovery in general, it makes perfect sense that there will be more made in the future.
Fearing change is also fearing life in some respects, and looking backwards for some is comforting, but not where you're headed of course. Much to be learned from the past, much to be learned in the future too.
...and so it goes...
There are very interesting new discoveries about our past being made that I find interesting.
GIven the history of discovery in general, it makes perfect sense that there will be more made in the future.
Fearing change is also fearing life in some respects, and looking backwards for some is comforting, but not where you're headed of course. Much to be learned from the past, much to be learned in the future too.
...and so it goes...
I am not upset by virtue signaling. Humans from all sorts of places do it. It's just that what different groups see as virtuous change depending on the population. Free speech and virtue signaling go hand in hand. Part of free speech is allowing people to try and change others minds. The bumper stickers in the Cabela's parking lot are a study in virtue signaling as are those in the church parking lot and the co-op parking lot. In all 3 parking lots we can find hypocrites as well. I find that debating the actual messages the stickers convey to be far more helpful that arguing the traits of the humans who own the stickers or calling out their hypocrisy. A hypocritical message may very well be 100% correct as well.
It is also very true that the poorer you are the less that concern over the future will outweigh concern over the present. This is a major reason that the rate of change on these issues is so slow. If we were to just stop all oil subsidies in all forms, military, drilling, clean up etc. the market would change away from oil. It would create financial incentive. However, whatever politician(s) did that would be quickly eliminated from office by a vote of the people. The short term pain would be unbearable especially to lower income earners. There are limits to what can be done through the federal government due to elections.
On the state level, you can see a trend in the maps above where the NE and west coast seem to be leading the way in wind and solar. The Southeast has very high poverty rates and little to no solar or wind energy. Given that the states with a lot of wind and solar are the more affluent states in the union, you can see where this comes into play in real life. The Northeast also has some serious energy issues that they are trying to deal with. Texas is an outlier of sorts in how it has accomplished having so many varied energy sources even with a high poverty rate (13th highest). They definitely seem to have taken a more free market approach, and there is plenty of wealth there. Occasionally, people feel some pain from that approach too, but it is smart to look and see what is working there.
Those are my thoughts. I appreciate that aside from some passive aggressive sorts of name calling, this convo has been about issues more that ad homonym attacks.
It is also very true that the poorer you are the less that concern over the future will outweigh concern over the present. This is a major reason that the rate of change on these issues is so slow. If we were to just stop all oil subsidies in all forms, military, drilling, clean up etc. the market would change away from oil. It would create financial incentive. However, whatever politician(s) did that would be quickly eliminated from office by a vote of the people. The short term pain would be unbearable especially to lower income earners. There are limits to what can be done through the federal government due to elections.
On the state level, you can see a trend in the maps above where the NE and west coast seem to be leading the way in wind and solar. The Southeast has very high poverty rates and little to no solar or wind energy. Given that the states with a lot of wind and solar are the more affluent states in the union, you can see where this comes into play in real life. The Northeast also has some serious energy issues that they are trying to deal with. Texas is an outlier of sorts in how it has accomplished having so many varied energy sources even with a high poverty rate (13th highest). They definitely seem to have taken a more free market approach, and there is plenty of wealth there. Occasionally, people feel some pain from that approach too, but it is smart to look and see what is working there.
Those are my thoughts. I appreciate that aside from some passive aggressive sorts of name calling, this convo has been about issues more that ad homonym attacks.
Are you suggesting that there are alternative positions backed by scientific evidence? That is disingenuous.
VMP
Steelhead
It is great to be skeptical. Being able to share alternative positions and dialogue is great in a free speech society.
However, science is not based on confronting alternative positions via dialogue. The scientific process is based on confronting ideas with data, drawing conclussions, and establishing facts when conclussions over an issue are consistent over time/different studies, etc. Like I mentioned before, there is plenty of primary scientific literature available for those interested in contrasting their ideas/notions with scientific facts. Factual scientific evidence on climate change and human role in it is plenty, don't take anyone's word for it, it just takes a few clicks. More examples below from NASA:
Evidence
Takeaways The rate of change since the mid-20th century is unprecedented over millennia. Earth’s climate has changed throughout history. Just in the last 800,000 years, there have been eight cycles of ice ages and warmer periods, with the end of the last ice age about 11,700 years ago marking...
climate.nasa.gov
Causes
Takeaways Increasing Greenhouses Gases Are Warming the Planet Scientists attribute the global warming trend observed since the mid-20th century to the human expansion of the “greenhouse effect”1 — warming that results when the atmosphere traps heat radiating from Earth toward space. Life on...
climate.nasa.gov
Effects
Takeaways Earth Will Continue to Warm and the Effects Will Be Profound Global climate change is not a future problem. Changes to Earth’s climate driven by increased human emissions of heat-trapping greenhouse gases are already having widespread effects on the environment: glaciers and ice sheets...
climate.nasa.gov
Scientific Consensus
It’s important to remember that scientists always focus on the evidence, not on opinions. Scientific evidence continues to show that human activities (primarily the human burning of fossil fuels) have warmed Earth’s surface and its ocean basins, which in turn have continued to impact Earth’s...
climate.nasa.gov
Also some information regarding reliability of sources:
NASA - Bias and Credibility
PRO-SCIENCE These sources consist of legitimate science or are evidence based through the use of credible scientific sourcing. Legitimate science follows
mediabiasfactcheck.com
Skeptical Science - Bias and Credibility
PRO-SCIENCE These sources consist of legitimate science or are evidence based through the use of credible scientific sourcing. Legitimate science follows
mediabiasfactcheck.com
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I would say the government we have now is different than the one we had in the space race. Either way agreeing or disagreeing I thank you for the good faith discussion.
As it looks right now it will likely be a Japanese company that will make my first electric bike. I could be wrong though as there are European models that look promising. What I really want to know is who will make batteries recyclable and profitable to do so be it car or bike.
Merchants of Doubt...
Worth reading
Altruistic private for profit business just acting in our best interests...again.
Worth reading
- Well-researched and comprehensive, it meticulously exposes the network of scientists who have undermined public understanding of scientific consensus on important matters.
- The authors skillfully connect the dots between different cases, highlighting the consistent pattern of doubt-mongering and its effects on policy-making and public discourse.
Altruistic private for profit business just acting in our best interests...again.
1000000% agree here!
Probably shouldn't say it, but the COVID vaccine was pretty streamlined.
Do you think this picture shows everything you need to know about global climate?
Not sure how CO2 emissions equivocate with violent crime, but if we're gonna go there...
The majority of homicides and violent crime in the US occur in proverty centers, primarily over drug turf, the victims and assailants usually people of color. Second on the list is the mix of alcohol and guns..everywhere.
Mass shootings in schools, supermarkets, etc, however? The majority take place in non poverty centers, the shooter invariably white.
For context:
The number of shooting deaths in the US in 2019? 14,000+
The number of pollution generated health deaths in 2014? 60,000+
U.S.: Air pollution deaths 2019 | Statista
The number of deaths attributable to air pollution in the United States have dropped significantly in the past 30 years.
www.statista.com
VMP
Steelhead
Evil windmills in a novel? It dates back to the origins of Western/European literature! Meaning no offense to anyone with the apocalyptic take on this topic of the cartoon below in this surprisingly well behaved and educational thread on an often controversial topic.
Rob Allen
Life of the Party
The only correlation I was making was that if we only blame the very worst offenders instead of us all taking responsibility then we are truly hypocrites. I guess to put it even shorter, picking on the rich is wrong and flawed thinking.Not sure how CO2 emissions equivocate with violent crime, but if we're gonna go there...
The majority of homicides and violent crime in the US occur in proverty centers, primarily over drug turf, the victims and assailants usually people of color. Second on the list is the mix of alcohol and guns..everywhere.
Mass shootings in schools, supermarkets, etc, however? The majority take place in non poverty centers, the shooter invariably white.
For context:
The number of shooting deaths in the US in 2019? 14,000+
The number of pollution generated health deaths in 2014? 60,000+
U.S.: Air pollution deaths 2019 | Statista
The number of deaths attributable to air pollution in the United States have dropped significantly in the past 30 years.
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