The Beginnings of the End…??

T

Tinker

Smolt
Forum Supporter
HauntedByWaters

HauntedByWaters

Life of the Party
This give away won’t help. Give aways never do. Will these new fishing rights make for good jobs and income? Or will it just make some large scale seafood purchaser even more money? You know this is just about money right? More resource extraction equal more executive houses in Baja for someone high up the chain. That is capitalism. It’s all wrapped in a beautiful veneer of native culture and history which I do enjoy, but it’s all about the dollars, it is not about the fish and native culture, that is for sure.

I worked for a tribe for many years and spent a lot of time speaking with the elders in that time. They mostly wanted the youth to go to college and not commercial fish. This was a very unpopular opinion in the tribe. You might be surprised at how many of the wise old elders have very different opinions than the official tribal narratives. Some elders would say that commercial fishing and free money are ruining their people.

All the tribal youth have 100% college paid and yet it is constantly said to the outside world/media that their people’s way is to commercial fish which does not require any education. It has come to the point that to not commercial fish is to disrespect their tribes. Why is it that the main job these people are culturally expected to do is commercial fish? Is it tradition and customs? Or is it dollars? The side effect is that these people stay uneducated and poor commercial fishermen. As I said, many tribal members know this, have seen this play out. How have 40+ of Boldt decision served the tribes of WA? Are these people truly any better or worse specifically because of the fishing economy?

The elders see the reality that commercial fishing is an awful livelihood for most and they keep their opinions to themselves because they are not popular. These near sales pitches at making commercial fishing the way of their people actually can make it harder for these tribes to help their people. If it appeared that commercial fishing was actually making these people a good living and making them wealthy, I would have a different opinion on this, but it does not appear to lead to great prosperity for most.

Just remember that under the veneer of native rights and traditional customs, somebody is making a ton of money and it isn’t the average tribal member. These political motions are so powerful and at such a large scale, they are certainly benefiting someone behind the curtain that is not your average tribal member and they probably aren’t even a tribal member. It is similar to the casinos. Take a close look at who makes the real money with the tribal casinos. Hint: it isn’t the tribes.
 
C

charles sullivan

Life of the Party
Forum Supporter
I don't know the actual agreement so I can't comment on that. I can say that the following statement is difficult for me to see or hear. Blessings are are not a part of wildlife management.

“I believe that if you allow us to help the state of Oregon co-manage the Coquille river, you will be inviting blessings onto yourself and onto the land,” Canyon Niblett, a 16-year-old member of the Coquille Indian Tribe said during the commission meeting where the memorandum was unanimously passed.
 
C

charles sullivan

Life of the Party
Forum Supporter
HauntedByWaters said:
This give away won’t help. Give aways never do. Will these new fishing rights make for good jobs and income? Or will it just make some large scale seafood purchaser even more money? You know this is just about money right? More resource extraction equal more executive houses in Baja for someone high up the chain. That is capitalism. It’s all wrapped in a beautiful veneer of native culture and history which I do enjoy, but it’s all about the dollars, it is not about the fish and native culture, that is for sure.

I worked for a tribe for many years and spent a lot of time speaking with the elders in that time. They mostly wanted the youth to go to college and not commercial fish. This was a very unpopular opinion in the tribe. You might be surprised at how many of the wise old elders have very different opinions than the official tribal narratives. Some elders would say that commercial fishing and free money are ruining their people.

All the tribal youth have 100% college paid and yet it is constantly said to the outside world/media that their people’s way is to commercial fish which does not require any education. It has come to the point that to not commercial fish is to disrespect their tribes. Why is it that the main job these people are culturally expected to do is commercial fish? Is it tradition and customs? Or is it dollars? The side effect is that these people stay uneducated and poor commercial fishermen. As I said, many tribal members know this, have seen this play out. How have 40+ of Boldt decision served the tribes of WA? Are these people truly any better or worse specifically because of the fishing economy?

The elders see the reality that commercial fishing is an awful livelihood for most and they keep their opinions to themselves because they are not popular. These near sales pitches at making commercial fishing the way of their people actually can make it harder for these tribes to help their people. If it appeared that commercial fishing was actually making these people a good living and making them wealthy, I would have a different opinion on this, but it does not appear to lead to great prosperity for most.

Just remember that under the veneer of native rights and traditional customs, somebody is making a ton of money and it isn’t the average tribal member. These political motions are so powerful and at such a large scale, they are certainly benefiting someone behind the curtain that is not your average tribal member and they probably aren’t even a tribal member. It is similar to the casinos. Take a close look at who makes the real money with the tribal casinos. Hint: it isn’t the tribes.
Click to expand...
Are you making the point that native fishermen are told they should commercial fish by non-tribal members to keep them from advancing and/ or because it is a way to make money on tribal commercial fish?
 
HauntedByWaters

HauntedByWaters

Life of the Party
charles sullivan said:
Are you making the point that native fishermen are told they should commercial fish by non-tribal members to keep them from advancing and/ or because it is a way to make money on tribal commercial fish?
Click to expand...

There is a strong community pressure from within the tribe to keep tribal members commercial fishing and there are powerful groups that profit (tribal and non-tribal) from this commercial fishing. Never mind the fact that it is a profession with little viability as a small business.

To your other question, when some groups of developers want to rezone and build their huge apartment building, we white folk don’t all go “hurray a white man and member of our tribe is going to make a bunch of money.” It is no different in the tribes, there are groups that get most of the power and profit.

We outsiders see these special privileges and money as a beneficial for the tribe but it is much more complicated than that. How have fishing rights and casino rights helped the Nooksack tribe? They seem to be in some serious turmoil at the moment. They should be experiencing the age of Aquarius with the amount of, “give them whatever they want” people are accepting these days for the tribes.
 
T

Tinker

Smolt
Forum Supporter
So, the latest news on this is the tribe will add an additional 500,000 hatchery salmon into the Coquille River to try to increase their numbers, which is good since ODFW shut down all salmon fishing in the Coquille in 2021. The tribe will not start to harvest salmon until the fish counts are back to historical numbers (~750,000/year), and the tribe is participating in efforts to reduce the number of smallmouth bass in the river.

At this point in time there is no agreement to put the Coquille Nation in charge of fishing access; they're only trying to do a better job of protecting the resource than ACOE (who now run the hatcheries) and ODFW have done. Sometimes experiences in other areas aren't universal, but only time will tell.
 
FinLuver

FinLuver

Native Oregonian…1846
Dummy said:
So, the latest news on this is the tribe will add an additional 500,000 hatchery salmon into the Coquille River to try to increase their numbers, which is good since ODFW shut down all salmon fishing in the Coquille in 2021. The tribe will not start to harvest salmon until the fish counts are back to historical numbers (~750,000/year), and the tribe is participating in efforts to reduce the number of smallmouth bass in the river.

At this point in time there is no agreement to put the Coquille Nation in charge of fishing access; they're only trying to do a better job of protecting the resource than ACOE (who now run the hatcheries) and ODFW have done. Sometimes experiences in other areas aren't universal, but only time will tell.
Click to expand...
Sounds like there might be some light…

However, as long as developments are allowed to continue to grow along rivers, the rivers themselves continue to get lower and lower…warmer and warmer…way too early every year.

A straw in the ground a straw in the river equals…

Well, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist.
And, the fish know it too.
 
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