Starter Two-Handed set up?

[Mud&$alt72]

I'm seriously considering trying a Two-handed rod this Winter. I mostly fish from the beach for sea-runs and salmon, but I'd like to be able to fish rivers for Steelhead as well. I've been considering the Echo Boost Beach, or the Echo Swing in a 7 or 8wt, Orvis Clearwater, LLBean, (something in the $200 to $300 range). I'm proficient at single hand, and can get good distance, but being able roll cast, and into the wind would be nice. I have a full frame Orvis Battenkill reel that I plan to use for the running line and a shooting head.

I sort of know the differences between switch and spey, and overhead rods, but I'm wondering if rod length really is a big factor in learning to cast these things. I have no opinion on rigging, (Skagit, Scandi, doesn't matter to me at this point). Any basic advise is greatly appreciated.

 

[JS]

My brother is just getting into throwing the double hander, he just got his first dry line fish on my old trusty Echo glass 6110.

That rod has landed some damn fine fish, including a 33ish” dry fly buck from 2016 that had an adipose the size of my (not so dainty) thumb. Landed the fish in 3 minutes 44 seconds (my buddy filmed the whole encounter). I might have landed it in 1:50 seconds if the bank was kinder or we had a net.

He just bought an Echo Full Spey 7130, which I expect will be a fantastic do-it-all rod for years.

 

[fatbillybob]

I'm seriously considering trying a Two-handed rod this Winter. I mostly fish from the beach for sea-runs and salmon, but I'd like to be able to fish rivers for Steelhead as well. I've been considering the Echo Boost Beach, or the Echo Swing in a 7 or 8wt, Orvis Clearwater, LLBean, (something in the $200 to $300 range). I'm proficient at single hand, and can get good distance, but being able roll cast, and into the wind would be nice. I have a full frame Orvis Battenkill reel that I plan to use for the running line and a shooting head.

I sort of know the differences between switch and spey, and overhead rods, but I'm wondering if rod length really is a big factor in learning to cast these things. I have no opinion on rigging, (Skagit, Scandi, doesn't matter to me at this point). Any basic advise is greatly appreciated.

Length is chosen by where you fish. Big river longer rod. Learning to cast easier comes with well matched line to the chosen rod. These rods cast a window of lines. At the extremes you need to be a better caster to use an extreme line with the rod. Speyheads are passed around like slutty girlfriend as fisher try to optimize lines with rod and the fisher’s casting style.

 

[clarkman]

My brother is just getting into throwing the double hander, he just got his first dry line fish on my old trusty Echo glass 6110.

That rod has landed some damn fine fish, including a 33ish” dry fly buck from 2016 that had an adipose the size of my (not so dainty) thumb. Landed the fish in 3 minutes 44 seconds (my buddy filmed the whole encounter). I might have landed it in 1:50 seconds if the bank was kinder or we had a net.

He just bought an Echo Full Spey 7130, which I expect will be a fantastic do-it-all rod for years.

I still regret getting rid of my Echo glass 11' 7wt....what a fun rod!

 

[downriver79]

If you end up just using your single-hand rods for swinging, I'd take a peek at OPST Commando heads. I like them paired with the OPST 7.5' tips for my single-handers. For the heads, 275-300gr for the 8wt and 250-275gr for the 7wt. When I started with them, I went with the heavier because I could feel it load easier. Now I usually go a little lighter (275 for my 8wt--sometimes I'll even drop down to 250) and have come to prefer tips that are 8' or shorter up to T-11 (I keep those to about 7'). I've also come to prefer the intermediate heads, ymmv.

Do you prefer the integrated Commando Smooth or a mono running line? Reason I ask is I recently put a 200 gr Commando Smooth on my 9' 5wt. I'm looking at setting up a 9' 7wt and am considering going with mono. I like the Smooth, but I also like the idea of being able to switch heads out with ease and potentially use the same reel on a 6 or 8 wt and just swap heads.

 

[clarkman]

Do you prefer the integrated Commando Smooth or a mono running line? Reason I ask is I recently put a 200 gr Commando Smooth on my 9' 5wt. I'm looking at setting up a 9' 7wt and am considering going with mono. I like the Smooth, but I also like the idea of being able to switch heads out with ease and potentially use the same reel on a 6 or 8 wt and just swap heads.

I go back and forth. I do tend to strip streamers for winters a bit and having a fly line is nicer to grab. Of course, I just switched back to mono (see the mono thread I started recently)....it just casts better IMO. I'm sure I'll switch back halfway through this winter....

 

[JS]

I still regret getting rid of my Echo glass 11' 7wt....what a fun rod!

Dude, I wish I’d have bought the 7110, 6124, and the 8136!!! I’m terrified of the 6110 breaking, but I think I have a backup plan if Echo doesn't have the parts.

 

[charles sullivan]

A 7wt spey is a tough rod cappable of landing any steelhead. The 10 lb leader should break prior to the rod. it seems to be too much for searuns to me.

If I were the OP I would undderstand that there is proably no real crossover between salt water SRC 2-handers and steelhead 2-handers. Maybe there is a switch style rod that I don't know about.

I would recomend a used 13' 7wt for steelhead. The vast majority of winter fish are within 2 inches of 30 inches either way.

 

[skyrise]

Ok so didn’t read through all the posts here. My worthless 2 cents is go to a good fly shop and try out a 2 hand rod like a 6 or 7 wt. or get a commando head that will fit one of your SH rods and play around with that. Also go to OPST website and watch some the casting videos. Ed does a good job explaining the casts and showing you how to cast a commando head both on single hand and two hand rod. And don’t think buying a commando head is waste of money as you can use it on both SH and two hand rods all year long. I do ! Personally I learned or did better casting when got my trout spey rod as I could feel the rod and line working together. Oh and my 4 wt trout spey has landed salmon up to 9lbs and some decent size trout, although never enough of them.

 

[jaredoconnor]

Hijacking this thread.

I’m looking at buying a 13ft 7wt Echo Swing. What size Echo Bravo reel would be appropriate? Also, what head and tips? Thanks!

@Evan B

 

[Evan B]

Hijacking this thread.

I’m looking at buying a 13ft 7wt Echo Swing. What size Echo Bravo reel would be appropriate? Also, what head and tips? Thanks!

@Evan B

Probably the 8/10. 10/12 would work too if you want more weight.

 

[Rob Allen]

If you want to learn to cast i recommend NOT going with a skagit head...

If you don't care and just want to fish and skagit heads are great but if you want to go beyond that learning on a skagit head has a high potential for teaching you lots of bad habits.

 

[charles sullivan]

If you want to learn to cast i recommend NOT going with a skagit head...

If you don't care and just want to fish and skagit heads are great but if you want to go beyond that learning on a skagit head has a high potential for teaching you lots of bad habits.

What sort of line would you recomend for a beginner?

I learned on a Windcutter. I am unsure if it taught me any bad habits. I still think of myself as a beginner in a lot of ways. The Skagit sure is efficient when fishing tips but maybe I could do similat things with a different line?

 

[Rob Allen]

What sort of line would you recomend for a beginner?

I learned on a Windcutter. I am unsure if it taught me any bad habits. I still think of myself as a beginner in a lot of ways. The Skagit sure is efficient when fishing tips but maybe I could do similat things with a different line?

There is nothing wrong with Skagit heads they are excellent at making sink tips easy to cast. And if that is all anyone wants to use their spey rod for that's great nothing wrong with that.

Lines like the windcutter you and I learned on taught us how to move line, how to set a proper anchor without crashing it it taught us how to mend and slow our swing and it taught us that there is more to life than just the snap t.
what i mean by "it taught us" is that to an extent , those longer lines were intolerant of mistakes. Some people even said the same thing about windcutters as they favored even longer lines, and they were right, now all those people have blown our shoulders. But those long lines made them superb casters.. you simply had to become good to cast them.

 

[charles sullivan]

There is nothing wrong with Skagit heads they are excellent at making sink tips easy to cast. And if that is all anyone wants to use their spey rod for that's great nothing wrong with that.

Lines like the windcutter you and I learned on taught us how to move line, how to set a proper anchor without crashing it it taught us how to mend and slow our swing and it taught us that there is more to life than just the snap t.
what i mean by "it taught us" is that to an extent , those longer lines were intolerant of mistakes. Some people even said the same thing about windcutters as they favored even longer lines, and they were right, now all those people have blown our shoulders. But those long lines made them superb casters.. you simply had to become good to cast them.

What lines would be best to learn on in your opinion?

 

[J Watrous]

What lines would be best to learn on in your opinion?

I don’t really know why Rob panned learning to Skagit cast first. Double spey and snap c/t can be learned in a couple hours and get you into fish and cover most situations. For good or for ill it’s how I learned and how my kid did (and if a 7yo can do it y’all can do it).

I personally like short skagit heads (SA skagit short, Airflo skagit driver). Especially in winter I don’t want to fanny around in the wind.

 

[fatbillybob]

If you want to learn to cast i recommend NOT going with a skagit head...

If you don't care and just want to fish and skagit heads are great but if you want to go beyond that learning on a skagit head has a high potential for teaching you lots of bad habits.

Double spey and snap c/t can be learned in a couple hours and get you into fish and cover most situations.

Well that depends if your goal is catching fish or looking good on the water? Watrous got it right. Two casts can cover 90% of water and get your fly fishing. That's what it is all about. But I agree with your concept "if you want to learn to cast" but casting properly with your hand this way and that and body this way and that isn't fishing. Some of the best casters I know don't fish well. They choose to emphasize a different aspect of the sport. Many sports have common elements. I take the Bruce Lee approach to sports. He taught down dirty ugly basic mechanics to get the student fighting. It was up to the student to now be so thrilled in the sport that he researched backward to the nuanced origins of the art. That's why his training method was so successful. If I had to learn spey with silk lines and 20ft. green stick rods I would have went right back to single hand graphite in 2 seconds. But getting fishing with a skagit head and 2 basic casts sucked me into the rabbit hole of spey. And for those who think the new stuff like skagit is trash long before there was skagit, an ultra short weighted head, in the silk line days there were also balled up heavy knotted silk (shooting heads for lack of better description) used before the leader just like the skagit head. Nothing is really "new."

 

[Rob Allen]

What lines would be best to learn on in your opinion?

In the interest of learning and fishing.. if try to find an old airflow delta.

 

[Rob Allen]

Well that depends if your goal is catching fish or looking good on the water? Watrous got it right. Two casts can cover 90% of water and get your fly fishing. That's what it is all about. But I agree with your concept "if you want to learn to cast" but casting properly with your hand this way and that and body this way and that isn't fishing. Some of the best casters I know don't fish well. They choose to emphasize a different aspect of the sport. Many sports have common elements. I take the Bruce Lee approach to sports. He taught down dirty ugly basic mechanics to get the student fighting. It was up to the student to now be so thrilled in the sport that he researched backward to the nuanced origins of the art. That's why his training method was so successful. If I had to learn spey with silk lines and 20ft. green stick rods I would have went right back to single hand graphite in 2 seconds. But getting fishing with a skagit head and 2 basic casts sucked me into the rabbit hole of spey. And for those who think the new stuff like skagit is trash long before there was skagit, an ultra short weighted head, in the silk line days there were also balled up heavy knotted silk (shooting heads for lack of better description) used before the leader just like the skagit head. Nothing is really "new."

None of the good fishermen i know are poor casters....

No one said anything is trash...

 

[Creatch’r]

Get a skagit head, don’t overthink it. They work great, are easy to get the hang of and are, in my opinion, the most effective fishing tool in winter conditions. You can sort it out later if you wish to continue down the rabbit hole and branch out into lines that are more lively and enjoyable to cast. There are tons of good options that are an easy transition from skagit land.

Remember guys, Jarad is a euro nympher. His fly reels don’t even have fly line on them. Let’s rejoice that our internet buddy is considering putting a whole 20 feet of skagit head on his spey rod!


For tips on a skagit head I really like the 12’ OPST tips because they have the grain weights I want in the sink rates that I want and it keeps it super simple. I personally fish the “riffle” and “run” the most, I’d go 132gr.

Easy to overthink literally every part of spey fishing because you’re very often not getting bit. But it’s generally not your tackle.

 

[charles sullivan]

I generally think that there is more than one way to do most everything and there is rarely a single "right" way.
I do think that there is likely some value in Rob's perspective. whether you learn on a longer belly first or a shorter one first, there is good reason to learn both.
I learned a whole lot about fishing tips by skating dries. In the same way, it may be easier to learn to fish short lines after learning on a long or vise versa. Learning first to cast on a shorter line makes sense to me. Learning to mend and fish first on a longer belly line makes sense to me.
Then there is the whole floating line vs. tips portion of the question. Do you fish summers or winters more etc.
I don't think that there is just one right way. I can see advantages to learning to cast a longer belly first though.