Sage is no longer on my radar

[Trout Trekker]

I would agree with the statement that Sage is no longer on my radar. My oldest Sage rod is a G I from the eighties.
I look at this way, Steve Rajeff is a masterful rod designer, but I always felt that it was Gary Loomis that kept Loomis' final runs grounded. So too I felt that when the old guard at Sage started to wane, that "Everyman's Rod" left with them. The old guard built performance rods that every man might gravitate too, now they build performance rods that a thinner slice of anglers clammer for.
This is likely a poor analogy, but if formula 1 racing was left to the engineers only, you'd get a car that while amazing on paper, no human could drive and survive. Bad huh? But that's the way I feel about most of the top tier entries today, they've left the human, the everyman out of the design.

While I haven't broken a rod in a very long time, I find the continual warranty C/S dissatisfaction adds one more nail to the coffin.

 

[krusty]

My first and only Sage (Sage X) butt section fell off right (nearly losing the now no longer attached reel to the lake) after I bought it new from a flyshop dealer. It was quite apparent that it fell off because Sage only attached it with a tiny blob of glue, and the dealer repaired it because Sage wouldn't likely repair and return the flyrod for many months. Hardly a premium quality item and mostly certainly nothing out of the ordinary in terms of casting.

 

[MELinOre]

Rob -
Curious, you've touched a lot of rods, who would you say is first in line?

#me2

 

[Evan B]

If I were picking a readily available USA manufacturer, I've loved Scott rods the most. I have limited experience with Winston, but enjoyed the ones I've cast and used a lot. I wish I had more Burkie experience, because I have a feeling I'd enjoy them as well.

 

[downriver79]

FWIW, I recently broke an old Metolius model Loomis that I'd had for 30 or so years. Broke the second section at the very end. A small piece actually broke off inside the 3rd section. Sent it to Loomis and about a month later I received a brand new 9' 5 wt IMX Pro. All it cost me was the shipping to send in the broken rod. They did inspect it and said it was not from user error. If it had been my fault, they said it would've cost $150 for a new rod.

 

[Rob Allen]

Rob -
Curious, you've touched a lot of rods, who would you say is first in line?

Burkheimer..

 

[Nick Clayton]

Used to be a pretty big Sage fan, but have drifted away from them over the years.

They just haven't released any newer rods that really spoke to me. That, combined with the shift of their customer service quality, I just haven't seen much reason to buy any of their rods in quite a few years.

Personally Orvis, Scott, and Echo all make rods that I love enough to keep me happy and don't give me much motivation to shop around much.

 

[Zak]

Well, my only two Sage rods are a 486 LL GIII and a 960 RPL, so I'm a bit out of date!

 

[Tallguy]

I sent in a rod to Sage for repair, broke the butt section on a fish hookset, on Sept 12, and just received shipping notification for them to send it back to me today. Month or so seems fair for a repair.

I like to strongly like some of my Sage rods like the Z axis, and am ambivalent about others, but also haven't found anything notably better really. It's never the rod, and always the person holding it, that matters anyways.

I do specifically value, and am willing to pay for, made in USA, and supporting smaller business and local business, as much as possible. So they are a sorta there, relatively.

 

[troutstalker]

I do specifically value, and am willing to pay for, made in USA, and supporting smaller business and local business, as much as possible. So they are a sorta there, relatively.

They used to be, before the Far Bank buyout. I value and am willing to pay for USA made products and like supporting local businesses as well. The way that I’ve been able to afford to buy US made rods and reels is by buying them used.

 

[albula]

I have always been a strong Sage supporter since my days as one of the initial dealers in the Bruce Kirschner/ Don Green days. What a great company to deal with and product to support. My most recent experience was purchasing a couple leaders and a couple sinking spey line heads from FarBank. On the same day I also ordered a new pair of Simms wading boots. The boots arrived in a largish cardboard box from Bozeman MT. The shipping charge from Bozeman to Port Angeles was $9.00. The leaders arrived the same day in a flimsy plastic envelope sent from Bainbridge to Port Angeles. The shipping charge was $25.00. Still trying to figure that one out.

 

[nwbobber]

All of my rods, save one are made in USA. I like most of them, including a DS 5wt I forgot I had. I have a close friend that had a nice sp 5wt that he broke, and having been assured that he was buying a rod with and UNCONDITIONAL warranty, he did get his rod fixed, and it was free, but it came accompanied by a snarky letter basically accusing him of being a moron and needing a lesson in how to use a flyrod. I was out then, and Winston, Scott, and Edge are making nice rods that I enjoy. I can get 21/2 Edge rods for the price of a sage, which means I have something to fish with while the other gets fixed.
I have not broke a fly rod, I know I shouldn't have said that 'cause.... I know things are more expensive to make here, but NFC can do it for half the price, there is some room at Sage,Winston, Scott to take care of their customers. If there are folks that are breaking them over their knee while throwing a temper tantrum, and they send their rods in three times for repair, these companies could change the wording of the warranty to only cover the first issue of non materials and workmanship.
In the end the loyal buyers who seek made in USA products deserve to be treated well because they could just as easily be buying TFO, Echo or many other quality rods, and though they are now willing to pay three times the price for X made in USA rod, that good will can ebb, if abused. Most of the people seeking warranty relief are not the abusers, their just fisherfolk like most of us.

 

[Evan B]

Most of the people seeking warranty relief are not the abusers, their just fisherfolk like most of us.

I think you would be surprised to be honest. Abuse comes in many more forms than just breaking over your knee and asking for replacement. Abuse comes in how people's rods are treated day in and day out. Outside of just rods that were beat to crap and not taken care of in any capacity, the next most common situation I'd see was rods broken by car doors or driven over. Abuse, neglect, and negligence accounted for a very high percentage of what came across my desk before we were forced to make changes. Failures that had zero to do with the quality of the product or a fishing-related failure.

Those old school warranty policies were written with the expectation that those situations would be the exception, but they eventually became the norm.

I will say, I don't miss that part of the job for one second, nor do I envy anyone at a rod company who has to do warranty desk duties.

 

[nwbobber]

I think you would be surprised to be honest. Abuse comes in many more forms than just breaking over your knee and asking for replacement. Abuse comes in how people's rods are treated day in and day out. Outside of just rods that were beat to crap and not taken care of in any capacity, the next most common situation I'd see was rods broken by car doors or driven over. Abuse, neglect, and negligence accounted for a very high percentage of what came across my desk before we were forced to make changes. Failures that had zero to do with the quality of the product or a fishing-related failure.

Those old school warranty policies were written with the expectation that those situations would be the exception, but they eventually became the norm.

I will say, I don't miss that part of the job for one second, nor do I envy anyone at a rod company who has to do warranty desk duties.

I don't hold Echo to the same standard as Sage. I remember standing in Kauffman's being told precisely that they would replace it even IF you slammed your car door on it. And it was at the time the most expensive piece of laminate I had ever seen. Someone must have done some form of math and priced the expected warranty cost into these rods, and if it is lack of care and whatnot as you say the wording of the warranty should reflect what they actually want to do for you. Paying 200 bucks to have a section rolled is just buying a section, and I would guess a well managed company can sell that service at that price for a tidy profit.
To some extent what I'm hearing is that in the pursuit of light weight sage has designed rods that are getting fairly fragile. An argument can be made that there is a threshold over which it ceases to be the correct tool to be walking through a riparian zone with if they are so fragile that if you so much as poke the bush along the trail you've lost five inches of the tip. (I'm not likely to pack my rod in a tube every time I move from place to place) This can be argued to be a fault in workmanship of the rod designer.
Anyway I believe a company who markets themselves as a premium, elite provider of the best products, of whatever kind that prices said products at the top end of what that product can be sold for, must provide service along with their products that is also at the top end or their market share will eventually suffer.

 

[Evan B]

I don't hold Echo to the same standard as Sage. I remember standing in Kauffman's being told precisely that they would replace it even IF you slammed your car door on it. And it was at the time the most expensive piece of laminate I had ever seen. Someone must have done some form of math and priced the expected warranty cost into these rods, and if it is lack of care and whatnot as you say the wording of the warranty should reflect what they actually want to do for you. Paying 200 bucks to have a section rolled is just buying a section, and I would guess a well managed company can sell that service at that price for a tidy profit.
To some extent what I'm hearing is that in the pursuit of light weight sage has designed rods that are getting fairly fragile. An argument can be made that there is a threshold over which it ceases to be the correct tool to be walking through a riparian zone with if they are so fragile that if you so much as poke the bush along the trail you've lost five inches of the tip. (I'm not likely to pack my rod in a tube every time I move from place to place) This can be argued to be a fault in workmanship of the rod designer.
Anyway I believe a company who markets themselves as a premium, elite provider of the best products, of whatever kind that prices said products at the top end of what that product can be sold for, must provide service along with their products that is also at the top end or their market share will eventually suffer.

Oh you're not wrong there. The long, in my opinion, misguided mission to make the lightest, fastest rods definitely led to some extremely fragile rods. Something had to give, and it was the durability. So no defense there. I don't even really feel like the market as a whole was asking for these things, cetain manufacturers just went that direction to try and set themselves apart.

 

[Scottybs]

If you appreciate US made… 1.) Winston 2.) Scott 3.) Orvis (ugliest designs)… if you want others… 1.) TFO 2.)Echo

I enjoy Sage rods… but I will never buy another… paying for the name(marketing) and the increased service costs… no thanks.

 

[Kado]

I've been using a couple T and T sextant blanks I built for tropical fishing. Really like them and they seem really durable. My buddy broke both his Winston rods on the same trip.

 

[Salmo_g]

I have 4 Sage rods (I think), and 3 of them are 2-handers with the other being an old LL model trout rod. Early in the Spey craze there were a lot of rather bad 2-handed rods and only a few good ones. So it was worth paying the price of a Sage rod to get a better rod. That all changed in due course, and soon there were very good 2-handed rods by many makers just as there are with single hand rods. I never bought any rod because of its warranty, but I did and still do expect the warranty to mean what it says. Unconditional lifetime means just that. Evan has explained how that became a losing proposition for the rod companies. I get that, but I still expect them to honor their word. It's not the customers' fault that the company made promises it couldn't afford to keep. That's on them. IMO the companies that made such warranties should honor their word even if it means going broke. It's stupid to make promises one can't keep. Stupidity should hurt and not be rewarded.

 

[Pescaphile]

. . . Unconditional lifetime means just that. . . .

Yep, it's that simple. Unconditional means "No conditions."

I tried to tell Sage that their new policy of charging $40.00 was a condition twenty-some years ago when the reel seat on my "lifetime unconditional warrantied" 8150-4 came loose and would spin completely around the blank. Ya, I paid them the forty bucks but it left a bad taste in my mouth. You keep your word.

 

[RCF]

The warranty was a written one. I had to register my rod. The company knew what warranty was in-place based on that date. If a company wants/needs to change the warranty, they can. Do not make it retroactive, make it based on model, serial number or date.