PS Reg Clarification

[jasmillo]

A little background. I got into a 30 minute window this weekend where I was able to visually see multiple adult coho chasing down my fly and refusing or short striking. During this time I switched flies a bunch and concluded the standard baitfish type pattern drew the most short strikes. Clousers generated about the same amount of interest but more refusals. In the end, I was able to get a few with a stinger clouser but it got me thinking I need to fish more standard baitfish patterns with stingers.

I have tied those before on shanks and had some success but the fly does not keel appropriately. Not sure that generally matters but it did seemed to make a difference during my little experiment yesterday.

So question; can you fish coho using stinger fly with two hooks (example below) or do I need to cut off that first hook? If not, can I cut off the point so it keels appropriately but would not likely hook a fish (probably a grey area if questioned). It looks like the regs say two hooks per line. So I imagine tandem flies are fine. What about two hooks per fly?

 

[Stonedfish]

Two hooks are ok, as that is what folks use when fishing herring.
I’ve used flies with two hooks before, but have always found it to be more of a pain in the ass then anything. That is just my experience. Others may find two hook flies helpful off the beach.
SF

 

[Wetswinger]

I've wondered if using barbell eyes facing down, towards the hook point would help keep the fly in proper position. This plus the weight of the hook would keep the fly in place. Can you incorporate big eyes with barbells?

 

[Jake Watrous]

From my experiences with herring, I think it’s a pain especially if releasing the fish.

Personally I just tie a shank and stinger, adding a dumbbell (which means I’ll tie the fly upside down), or tie it as a tube fly which lets me set the hook just about anywhere in the pattern I’d like and doesn’t seem to have any negative effect on how it swims/orients.

 

[jasmillo]

Two hooks are ok, as that is what folks use when fishing herring.
I’ve used flies with two hooks before, but have always found it to be more of a pain in the ass then anything. That is just my experience. Others may find two hook flies helpful off the beach.
SF

Thanks Brian. I can see that being a pain. Maybe I’ll just have a few in the box to use in specific situations.

I've wondered if using barbell eyes facing down, towards the hook point would help keep the fly in proper position. This plus the weight of the hook would keep the fly in place. Can you incorporate big eyes with barbells?

Yeah, but I think I would just a use a stinger clouser in that situation. I imagine the difference yesterday was the jiggly action of the clouser versus the unweighted baitfish pattern. As a rule (almost all the time), I think clouser action is a great thing. Maybe sometimes they just like a fly that hovers a bit. There was a ton of bait around so maybe that had something to do with it?? Who knows…ha.

 

[Tallguy]

I tried double hooks for a bit when I first started tying beach coho flies. I stopped quickly because I think they can damage the fish a lot more, although hooking rate goes up. It would be okay if you kept everything you hooked, but we are often releasing shakers or wild fish, and sometimes that second hook creates a lot of destruction to a released fish. One hook point only for me now.

 

[Bagman]

I’m with the pain in the butt side, with my poor casting I let getting a fouled flys, I also was on the beach when one of our own fly guys landed a nice coho and was removing the hook before giving the fish a stone shampoo and the second hook ended up stuck in his thumb, and he ended up in the Dr. Having to hook removed. Back then MA 9 allowed us to keep wild coho. That being said I would not want to be trying to remove a hook from a unclipped coho with a second hook out there with my name on it.

 

[copperJon]

I have tied those before on shanks and had some success but the fly does not keel appropriately. Not sure that generally matters but it did seemed to make a difference during my little experiment yesterday.

Maybe some bucktail or other more buoyant materials on top to get it to ride appropriately, and replace white bucktail with synthetic?

 

[copperJon]

So I was curious, as I was using an unweighted baitfish pattern the other day, and it was riding slightly sideways on the strip, but would settle correctly. I tied one up last night using the smallest of dumbell eyes...3/32 I believe. FYI they fit, albeit snugly, under a #5 fishskull helmet. Not tested yet in the water, but I'm guessing that with all the other materials, the jiggly action will be minimal, if there's any at all.

 

[Stonedfish]

I’ve had good luck with non weighted patterns like this.
If you are concerned with how they keel or present, like dark side up consider tying some in solid white. They it won’t matter what side is up and solid white is pretty underrated but produces well.
SF

 

[mtskibum16]

@Kfish and I have been talking about this some lately. One idea I have but didn't try yet is using a jig hook and potentially weighting the shank for a proper keel. Another would be weighted belly scratcher style. These days I tend to prefer to tie and fish (and especially cast) epoxy head patterns over clousers, but I would really like to nail down a stinger style pattern. I have also noticed the fish getting more nippy lately.

 

[copperJon]

I’ve had good luck with non weighted patterns like this.

I still have one of those that you gave to me on the beach over 10 years ago

 

[Kfish]

I haven't fish this yet but it keels OK in the sink. Not a fan of that upturn hook eye
There is some lead in the "belly" there.

 

[Stonedfish]

@Kfish and I have been talking about this some lately. One idea I have but didn't try yet is using a jig hook and potentially weighting the shank for a proper keel. Another would be weighted belly scratcher style. These days I tend to prefer to tie and fish (and especially cast) epoxy head patterns over clousers, but I would really like to nail down a stinger style pattern. I have also noticed the fish getting more nippy lately.

Matt,
The belly scratcher idea might be a great option.
SF

 

[mtskibum16]

Matt,
The belly scratcher idea might be a great option.
SF

I think it could work out for bigger profile herring type ties. I have only had time to tie my bare minimum beach needs this year, so I haven't done any experimenting at all.

 

[jasmillo]

Thanks all for the replies and ideas. @Kfish texted me that fly last night and it had me doing some experimenting of my own. I’ll share what I come up with later today once this pesky thing called work gets out of the way .

 

[Bagman]

I haven't fish this yet but it keels OK in the sink. Not a fan of that upturn hook eye
There is some lead in the "belly" there.

View attachment 27849

I fished this fly this morning and it produced the only grab I got, as well as the only fish I came home with. It was just a cookie cutter about 3lbs, but it was fun on my 5wt. This is a fly given to me by a friend in Santa Cruz he has been fishing Alaska every year for at least 10 years.

 

[jasmillo]

So this is what @Kfish inspired me to try when he sent me the pic of a pattern tied on a jig shank. Flies tied on bass swim bait and worm hooks. One without a stinger because the hooks are long and sit back already. Two with a stinger with the actual hook cut off. On one I added a chartreuse glow in the dark bead to the cut off point (so it does not fray the braid of the stinger), the other chartreuse uv cure. Not sure the bead or cure will help but pretty certain it will not hurt.





Stinger is way to long on this one. Was not paying attention when tying apparently….

 

[Kfish]

So this is what @Kfish inspired me to try when he sent me the pic of a pattern tied on a jig shank. Flies tied on bass swim bait and worm hooks. One without a stinger because the hooks are long and sit back already. Two with a stinger with the actual hook cut off. On one I added a chartreuse glow in the dark bead to the cut off point (so it does not fray the braid of the stinger), the other chartreuse uv cure. Not sure the bead or cure will help but pretty certain it will not hurt.

View attachment 27889

View attachment 27890

Stinger is way to long on this one. Was not paying attention when tying apparently….

View attachment 27888

Cool, mardi gras shank
You can bring that stinger hook closer in by taking that loop and cross figure 8 it around the shank.

 

[Grandpa Jim]

Nice concepts on those 3 flies. Will there be a study with statistics on how they perform?

Material questions:
What's that intermittent clear and purple lateral line material? Looks good!
Is that yellow bucktail or a yellowish chartreuse bucktail on the 3rd fly? My color vision could be better...