One rod for both tight line nymphing AND streamers

[Kado]

Let me preface that I have never tried euro nymphing....but I'm curious and really don't like using indicators unless I really have to. I'm willing to not have the 'perfect' rod for either method, but would at least like it to be a pretty decent compromise. From what I gather based on youtube.....the rod has a pretty big impact as to how effective you can present when tightlining vs the other forms of fly fishing.
The Beulah 3wt (based on the Red's videos) seems to be able to do both fairly well. I'd like to use this rod on the Yakima, Fall, and Upper Deschutes rivers. Maybe the Crooked. Beulah doesn't make a 2wt euro blank.
Any experience you'd be willing to share is appreciated. I'm more than happy to build out a different blank (ie NFC) if a better option. The Beulah blank is about $300.
Thanks for any help,
Mark

 

[Jake Watrous]

For whatever it’s worth, if your use will skew towards streamers a significant portion of the time I recommend considering a 10' 4wt for euro, streamers, and the occasional juicy dry. Fishing those very rivers I found that 3wts didn't do the streamer game well enough, and the 4wt came out of a conversation with a friend (who guides the Ellensburg area and is one of Red's guides) one day while we were fishing it. He recommended a long 4wt as a general-purpose long stick and I went for it. He was right, it's a great do-it-all. Throws indicators as well, but I rarely do that.

I can long-term loan you my setups (2wt and 4wt, won't be using them until June) or we can meet up on a river or somewhere (I know some places in Eastern Washington that do very well this time of year) to try them out. They aren't Beulah's but they're similar in my experience (they're Thomas and Thomas Contact IIs) and maybe it could help answer some things about which blank, you want to build out.

 

[Kado]

Man Jake, you don't mess around when it comes to the quality of your rods : ). I had thought the T and T contact was more of a pure euro stick.
We have definitely got to meet out there some time!

 

[Jake Watrous]

Man Jake, you don't mess around when it comes to the quality of your rods : ). I had thought the T and T contact was more of a pure euro stick.
We have definitely got to meet out there some time!

Heh! Well, I can't build a rod of any quality so if I'm going to buy a setup I want it to be a nice one.

The 4wt is a more general-purpose rod--at least in my experience.

Happy to fish anytime, just lemme know.

 

[greenriver]

10-4 good buddy

 

[clarkman]

If you're talking streamers 2" and above, there's not a single euro rod on the planet that will be good for that type of fishing. I use a 7wt with the appropriate streamer line for that. But, for those little sub 2" streamers such as jigged buggers and stuff like that, most euro rods are going to be able to handle that just fine. Since you mentioned the NFC blank, I'll touch on that specifically though since I have the Edge Archetype (built on that 11' 2wt blank). It's absolutely a fantastic euro rod that is quite sensitive (your leader setup has to do with this too) but can still handle small streamers (I've fished up to 1.5" jigged streamers with 4mm beads & it fishes just like with any euro nymph and have no doubt that it would handle slightly larger streamers just fine. The NFC blank has a butt section just as thick as my 9' 5wt NFC LMX FAF and has that kind of power (which also punches above it's weight), but it's also incredibly light in hand while fishing it.

Regarding the Beulah, I've never fished one, just read probably the same things you've read about it. It was rather high on my list prior to grabbing the Edge (NFC) last minute (nice sale that Edge had at the time) & I'm really happy with the Edge.

As Jake mentioned though, if you're going to be primarily streamer vs primarily euro, a 10' 4wt might suit you better. Take him up on his offer!



also, hopefully @jaredoconnor will pop in as I know he does a ton of euro style fishing.

 

[spcoldsmoke]

As others mentioned there will be a tradeoff when you're trying to do both of those things. I prefer my 10ft 3wt Echo Shadow X as my euro/combo setup.

 

[Kado]

If you're talking streamers 2" and above, there's not a single euro rod on the planet that will be good for that type of fishing. I use a 7wt with the appropriate streamer line for that. But, for those little sub 2" streamers such as jigged buggers and stuff like that, most euro rods are going to be able to handle that just fine. Since you mentioned the NFC blank, I'll touch on that specifically though since I have the Edge Archetype (built on that 11' 2wt blank). It's absolutely a fantastic euro rod that is quite sensitive (your leader setup has to do with this too) but can still handle small streamers (I've fished up to 1.5" jigged streamers with 4mm beads & it fishes just like with any euro nymph and have no doubt that it would handle slightly larger streamers just fine. The NFC blank has a butt section just as thick as my 9' 5wt NFC LMX FAF and has that kind of power (which also punches above it's weight), but it's also incredibly light in hand while fishing it.

Regarding the Beulah, I've never fished one, just read probably the same things you've read about it. It was rather high on my list prior to grabbing the Edge (NFC) last minute (nice sale that Edge had at the time) & I'm really happy with the Edge.

As Jake mentioned though, if you're going to be primarily streamer vs primarily euro, a 10' 4wt might suit you better. Take him up on his offer!



also, hopefully @jaredoconnor will pop in as I know he does a ton of euro style fishing.

Off hand, do they sell an extra tip also? I see a broken tip section with 11 feet of rod whipping around. For $95.....hard to lose.

 

[clarkman]

Off hand, do they sell an extra tip also? I see a broken tip section with 11 feet of rod whipping around. For $95.....hard to lose.

I'm not sure. may be worth a quick email but customer service can be hit or miss, only because it can sometimes take a while for them to respond. Hopefully you're not whipping it around whilst euro-nymphing though.

Warranty Registration

 

[Brute]

You can throw a short skagit head on your 4wt euro rod to throw streamers…fish a section first tight line nymphing, then fish it with streamers

 

[Kado]

View attachment 97012View attachment 97013You can throw a short skagit head on your 4wt euro rod to throw streamers…fish a section first tight line nymphing, then fish it with streamers

Ahhh....so you feel comfortable casting with the T and T 4 wt. Jake, I'm assuming you do the same?
I'm trying to avoid purchasing a 2wt also if I really get into this euro nymphing. Do you feel it would be good for the Fall and upper Deschutes?
Thanks

 

[DerekWhipple]

What kind of streamer fishing are you wanting to do? Are you throwing weighted micro streamers, or 6" articulated stuff with deer hair to bucknasty browns? Swinging a sculpzilla?

A euro rod can absolutely handle small jig streamers (key word is "small"), and fish them well, I do it frequently with a nymph dropper. If you really get into euro nymphing, you'll want a dedicated rod. A purpose built euro rod makes a big difference, even a cheaper model.

You could reach out to Joe Goodspeed at Diamondback, he is their rod designer, and also designed the Contact II. The 4 and 6wt TnT and Diamondback euro rods were designed with larger and heavier flies in mind (still not Galloup style), but then they don't do tiny nymphs with 6-8x as well as a 2 or 3wt. A 2 wt euro rod would be a great upper D rod. Below Crane Prarie, I'd use a 3 or even a 4wt because of the size of the fish.

 

[greenriver]

Brute- what is the weight of the skagit head for the 10' 4 wt? is that an OPST head? thanks

 

[Kado]

What kind of streamer fishing are you wanting to do? Are you throwing weighted micro streamers, or 6" articulated stuff with deer hair to bucknasty browns? Swinging a sculpzilla?

A euro rod can absolutely handle small jig streamers (key word is "small"), and fish them well, I do it frequently with a nymph dropper. If you really get into euro nymphing, you'll want a dedicated rod. A purpose built euro rod makes a big difference, even a cheaper model.

You could reach out to Joe Goodspeed at Diamondback, he is their rod designer, and also designed the Contact II. The 4 and 6wt TnT and Diamondback euro rods were designed with larger and heavier flies in mind (still not Galloup style), but then they don't do tiny nymphs with 6-8x as well as a 2 or 3wt. A 2 wt euro rod would be a great upper D rod. Below Crane Prarie, I'd use a 3 or even a 4wt because of the size of the fish.

I like the idea of using a small skagit head and having the ability to throw a 2 inch sculpin. Euro nymphing upstream and swinging a streamer downstream really appeals to me.
With the help of this thread, I'm beginning to understand why Jake has a 4wt euro rod for just what I'm thinking of and a 2 wt dedicated euro rod. I don't really want to spend on two Contact II rods though : ). I'll check out Diamondback.
Thanks,
Mark

 

[clarkman]

It should also be noted that it's really easy to overthink these types of things too, especially with so many cooks in the kitchen.

Regardless of which direction you end up going, you'll figure out a way to make it work for you.

 

[Jake Watrous]

Ahhh....so you feel comfortable casting with the T and T 4 wt. Jake, I'm assuming you do the same?
I'm trying to avoid purchasing a 2wt also if I really get into this euro nymphing. Do you feel it would be good for the Fall and upper Deschutes?
Thanks

Hi Mark,

Yeah, I tend to fish two or even three different methods (if dries make sense) with that 4wt through a single stretch before moving on.

I've got a ~25' length of mono built in sections for a nymphing leader that is loop-loop connected to a floating line.

1. Nymph

2. Take off the section of 5x, and fish streamers with the rest of the mono as a "sink tip". Though, I've been experimenting with a general purpose "taper" that doesn't require removing anything.

3. Take off the entire mono part, and fish dries.

I hadn't considered trout spey with it, but now I'm gonna have to consider it as I've never tried trout spey.

I do think it would work well for the Upper D and the Fall. I've fished both with it. I've also landed "huge" (30”s) reel-earning trout in other places with it without any problem.

Edit: Defined "huge" as it's a very relative term

 

[Brute]

Brute- what is the weight of the skagit head for the 10' 4 wt? is that an OPST head? thanks

Yes, 175, with a 7.5’ sink tip

 

[Brute]

Hi Mark,

Yeah, I tend to fish two or even three different methods (if dries make sense) with that 4wt through a single stretch before moving on.

I've got a ~25' length of mono built in sections for a nymphing leader that is loop-loop connected to a floating line.

1. Nymph

2. Take off the section of 5x, and fish streamers with the rest of the mono as a "sink tip". Though, I've been experimenting with a general purpose "taper" that doesn't require removing anything.

3. Take off the entire mono part, and fish dries.

I hadn't considered trout spey with it, but now I'm gonna have to consider it as I've never tried trout spey.

I do think it would work well for the Upper D and the Fall. I've fished both with it. I've landed "huge" reel-earning trout with it without any problem.

I’ll carry a reel with a 4wt floating line in the pack for dries…

 

[clarkman]

Yes, 175, with a 7.5’ sink tip

I just happen to have one of those lying around....

 

[O' Clarkii Stomias]

Before euro nymphing, a lot of us were tight line nymphing with longish leaders, no indicators, and a standard flyline. If I was looking for a system that would tight line nymph, not euro, it would be a good old 6100 combined with a SA Anadro smooth 6-weight. Add some short poly leaders of a couple of different densities for streamers, and there you go.
Don't get me wrong, I love my T&T 4109 euro rod for euro nymphing, single hand spey, throwing dries, and bobber fishing, but there is no way it is what I consider a streamer rod.