lithium battery questions

up2nogood

Steelhead
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I have an old school motor guide 12V electric 36. I also have a dakota 100ah LiFePO4 battery with a built in BMS that is now on its 4th season. I run my motor and sounder off the same battery. When fully charged it sits at 13.65 V, when in use it quickly drops to 13.2Vish and stays at 13.2-13.0V from 95% SOC - 20 % SOC. I use my electric for moving from spot to spot and I only use it at one setting, FULL THROTTLE. I seldom charge the battery to 100% and try to keep it between 85%-20%. I use the multimeter to get a better gauge of SOC and charge accordingly. For me one of the very best things about this battery is it loves to live in a perpetual state of partial discharge (40-80%) whereas Lead acid batteries hate being kept in that state. This makes it very easy to use the battery for a trip or two and then just leave it in storage for a long time before charging and doing zero damage to the battery. In fact, the instructions encourage you NOT to store the battery at 100%. If you charge a lead acid battery this way, you permanently damage the battery as lead acid batteries are best kept at 100% SOC as much as possible. At this point my battery still performs exactly as it did when I first purchased it. I got my battery when they were new and very very expensive. Prices have come down quite a bit and at this point it is very hard to justify buying a lead acid battery IMO.
That’s interesting about the 100% , have read that before . Yet the one I bought 100 amp , stated in the manual store at 100% .Seems to be conflicting positions on storage .
 

up2nogood

Steelhead
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Thx for sharing those pics. Looks pretty cool.
I know on bigger water it's getting hard for this old guy to kick my way out and back.
Elec. motor seems like a viable solution.
I got caught in the wind one day farther out than I should have been . Just fins , and oars , I was in doubt for awhile if I was going to make it back in . Last time I was in a pontoon boat without a motor .
 

up2nogood

Steelhead
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MELinOre and WW... I do both of those things with my minnkota! Oars going forward, fins going backwards. It is quite a propulsion menagerie. BigSplashTom: I looked but I don't have the best pic of the motor actually mounted on my pontoon. But, here are a couple pics of how things look. I got new pontoons a couple years ago, the green ones are new. The battery and motor are the ones I am replacing.

View attachment 105940

View attachment 105941
They sell a handle extension for the Minn Kota, that way if you do go forward the handle is laying right by your side to guide the boat . I find it easier to go backwards as fast as I want , if wanting to get to another location , and just look over my shoulder occasionally to avoid anyone. Fins to guide .
 

_WW_

Geriatric Skagit Swinger
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They sell a handle extension for the Minn Kota, that way if you do go forward the handle is laying right by your side to guide the boat . I find it easier to go backwards as fast as I want , if wanting to get to another location , and just look over my shoulder occasionally to avoid anyone. Fins to guide .
Backwards for me too. In fact I turned the head around on my motor.
 

onefish

Steelhead

This is a long article but it is an easy read and pretty much covers any questions you may have about LiFePO4 batteries.

From the article

To sum up, for long and happy LFP battery life, in order of importance, you should be mindful of the following:


  1. Keep the battery temperature under 45 Centigrade (under 30C if possible) – This is by far the most important!!
  2. Keep charge and discharge currents under 0.5C (0.2C preferred)
  3. Keep battery temperature above 0 Centigrade (freezing) when discharging if possible – This, and everything below, is nowhere near as important as the first two
  4. Do not cycle below 10% – 15% SOC unless you really need to
  5. Do not float the battery at 100% SOC if possible
  6. Do not charge to 100% SOC if you do not need it
  7. KISS (Keep It Simple Smart-person) – avoid series-connected lithium batteries, avoid heated batteries unless absolutely needed

That is it! Now you too can find happiness and a fulfilling life with your LiFePO4 batteries!
 
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up2nogood

Steelhead
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This is a long article but it is an easy read and pretty much covers any questions you may have about LiFePO4 batteries.

From the article

To sum up, for long and happy LFP battery life, in order of importance, you should be mindful of the following:


  1. Keep the battery temperature under 45 Centigrade (under 30C if possible) – This is by far the most important!!
  2. Keep charge and discharge currents under 0.5C (0.2C preferred)
  3. Keep battery temperature above 0 Centigrade (freezing) when discharging if possible – This, and everything below, is nowhere near as important as the first two
  4. Do not cycle below 10% – 15% SOC unless you really need to
  5. Do not float the battery at 100% SOC if possible
  6. Do not charge to 100% SOC if you do not need it
  7. KISS (Keep It Simple Smart-person) – avoid series-connected lithium batteries, avoid heated batteries unless absolutely needed

That is it! Now you too can find happiness and a fulfilling life with your LiFePO4 batteries!
Thanks for the info . As said above in one of my posts, my manual that came with my LFP stated store at 100 % I suppose I could check with the manufacturer, but that’s what’s in their manual.

It certainly holds it charge , I hadn't checked it for about 7 months , and it was still at 100%. I put it away last August after returning from a six week trip to Montana, where it got used frequently. It’s been stored these past months well within the temperature range you posted . O - 113 F . Pretty crazy my manual says store at 100% . I’ve read this enough now , I’m going to get it down around 80 % when stored . The battery is less than a year old , bought early June last year .
 

krusty

We're on the Road to Nowhere...
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Some lithium ion batteries (like the EGO electric mower batteries) automatically self-discharge after a set period of sitting idle at 100% charge. The EGO batteries drop to 30% after 30 days of disuse.
 

up2nogood

Steelhead
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Some lithium ion batteries (like the EGO electric mower batteries) automatically self-discharge after a set period of sitting idle at 100% charge. The EGO batteries drop to 30% after 30 days of disuse.
I guess I don’t have that style , mine as said after 7 months still sitting at 100 % .

I was so used to monitoring my AGM’s during the winter, checking periodically to maintain, it appears this LFP requires no attention. I let it go the 7 months dropped the ball on it , having ankle surgery in November, just didn’t think about it like normal .
 

Doublebluff

As sure as your sorrows are joys
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After I bought my battery I got on the Dakota Lithium battery mailing list. This is what they say about charging.

Screenshot 2024-03-20 at 8.31.11 AM.png
 

ifsteve

Steelhead
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The only issue with this fully charging every two months is that some of us may be away from a set of batteries for several months at a time.
 

onefish

Steelhead
The only issue with this fully charging every two months is that some of us may be away from a set of batteries for several months at a time.
According to all the literature I have come across the discharge rate of LiFePO4 is between 1% and 2%/month. My Dakota 100ah came from the factory with about a 30% charge which is also what the literature says a new LiFePO4 battery will be charged at from the factory no matter the brand.
If you charge to 100% and leave it for a year it will still be at 76%-88% SOC. Any literature I have seen states the only time you can damage a battery on the low side is keeping it stored at less than 10% SOC. You are overthinking this IMO.
 

ifsteve

Steelhead
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According to all the literature I have come across the discharge rate of LiFePO4 is between 1% and 2%/month. My Dakota 100ah came from the factory with about a 30% charge which is also what the literature says a new LiFePO4 battery will be charged at from the factory no matter the brand.
If you charge to 100% and leave it for a year it will still be at 76%-88% SOC. Any literature I have seen states the only time you can damage a battery on the low side is keeping it stored at less than 10% SOC. You are overthinking this IMO.
I am not overthinking this in the least. I merely responded to the quote from the Dakota brochure that was posted. They said "so don't forget to fully charge your batteries every two months during the offseason."

I don't think its an issue either. But apparently Dakota does??
 

onefish

Steelhead
I am not overthinking this in the least. I merely responded to the quote from the Dakota brochure that was posted. They said "so don't forget to fully charge your batteries every two months during the offseason."

I don't think its an issue either. But apparently Dakota does??

Just another article that discusses the reasons why you should not charge your LiFePO4 battery to 100% on a regular basis. I am 4 years in with what appears to me to be identical performance parameters with my Dakota 100ah battery. I avoid charging to 100% based on numerous articles I have read regarding this chemistry. I keep my battery in the 50%-90% range most of the time and periodically charge to 100%. The only literature I have seen that advocates charging to 100% and keeping at 100% is dakota. In fact, the literature I have read about this chemistry and its charging and storing parameters were one of the main reasons I paid the big bucks for my battery.
When my battery is 10 yrs old we can compare notes on how my charging routine and your charging routine compare. Good luck with your dakota, I love mine so far.
Regarding charging it appears we will just have to agree to disagree.
 

BigSplashTom

Steelhead
I am not overthinking this in the least. I merely responded to the quote from the Dakota brochure that was posted. They said "so don't forget to fully charge your batteries every two months during the offseason."

I don't think its an issue either. But apparently Dakota does??

The obvious solution to this battery BS is just go fishing more frequently.
You will be happier and so will those batteries.
The fish might not like it, or will they.
 

ifsteve

Steelhead
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The obvious solution to this battery BS is just go fishing more frequently.
You will be happier and so will those batteries.
The fish might not like it, or will they.
Exactly. What I always respond to threads about "do you practice your fly casting." Sure lawn casting is fine. Fishing is better.....lol
 

jasmillo

}=)))*>
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Backwards for me too. In fact I turned the head around on my motor.

Thanks for posting this. I occasionally use a trolling motor on my Fishcat scout and going forward, water gets pushed around me and into the back. Kept thinking “I need to figure out a solution so I can get pulled, not pushed”.

Dar, this was one of those solutions that made me feel like a moron. Why didn’t I think of this… ;).
 
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