NFR Installing mini-split ductless AC/Heating system?

[Flymph]

Have been thinking about installing three zones of mini-slit AC/Heating to replace inefficient wall heaters and window AC units. Just received an instillation quote of $20,000 which seems higher than researched averages. The expensive instillation cost plus keeping the juice running 24/7 are definite cons. Pros are PUD kick back and supposed 30% reduction in monthly energy bills.

What say you to these claims from your own or someone else's experiences?

 

[Robert Engleheart]

My brother installed that system in a house in Lancaster, PA, loves it. He had no reasonable alternative as the house is 200 years old and not conducive to running ductwork. Three stories and 17’ x 54’ footprint. Not sure what it cost and that was 10+ years ago so it’s irrelevant to today’s costs.

 

[headduck]

I don't own one personally but pushed a lot for em in commercial work when i worked as a sustainability consultant.

Cool thing ... if there is simultaneous heating and cooling in different zones they feed each other ... increasing efficiency.

A trip to china a number of years ago revealed how far we are behind with this application. China has been using them for years and have many brands... some with terminal units that were stylish and almost attractive... bamboo or faux lacquer finish for example.

Good tech.

The installer or rep should be able to provide you with payback scenarios to help see if 20k makes sense for you.

 

[Buzzy]

Have been thinking about installing three zones of mini-slit AC/Heating to replace inefficient wall heaters and window AC units. Just received an instillation quote of $20,000 which seems higher than researched averages. The expensive instillation cost plus keeping the juice running 24/7 are definite cons. Pros are PUD kick back and supposed 30% reduction in monthly energy bills.

What say you to these claims from your own or someone else's experiences?

Our house is a partial two story. When we decided to upgrade from resistance wall heaters, a swamp cooler upstairs and a dining room through the wall unit, we got quotes from three installers. We would have lost one storage space and half the upstairs closet for ductwork with one large system. One of the contractors bid with heatpump/furnace unit for downstairs (crawlspace for duct work) and the ductless for upstairs. His quote was significantly less than the others. We love the ductless (Mitsubishi), a hell of a lot quieter than those units in most motels/hotels, quick to heat or cool and efficient.

 

[charles sullivan]

I have a 1 zone in an accessory building. It is great.

There are units that come with pre-charged lines that a man could install himself.

I have also found that the installation charges seem excessive from some contractors. WA state energy code is a lot easier to comply with for new construction if you use one so I think that the supply of contractors licensed by the manufacturers is a lot lower than the demand.

 

[Westfly Refugee]

Have been thinking about installing three zones of mini-slit AC/Heating to replace inefficient wall heaters and window AC units. Just received an instillation quote of $20,000 which seems higher than researched averages. The expensive instillation cost plus keeping the juice running 24/7 are definite cons. Pros are PUD kick back and supposed 30% reduction in monthly energy bills.
What say you to these claims from your own or someone else's experiences?

Some of the cost depends on how complicated it is to run the necessary lines to all three zones, so really cannot comment on the $20K number.

Next week I am having a heat pump/air handler installed utilizing the home's existing duct work. In an apples-to-apples comparison, there was a ~30% difference in the quotes between the three vendors. Two Oregon rebates will be claimed by the vendor. I chose the most energy efficient products in the Carrier line. That equipment gets me a $2000 Federal tax credit. All in, my net investment is $13.2k (I do have a backup emergency generator)

A highly efficient system was a priority for me because we know: a) energy will not be getting any cheaper, and b) our summers will not be getting cooler.

 

[Josh]

I have one that came with the house when we bought it, it's been great.

My neighbor installed one (with pre charged lines) himself and walked me through the process. Didn't sound too hard (aside from the electrical which I would hire out unless you are comfortable adding breakers to your box). I'll probably go that route if I ever get around to turning the garage into a family room.

 

[LBL]

Look at MrCool. https://mrcool.com/ These are units designed for DIY with precharged lines. I installed one in a new garage shop I built. Very very easy. One hole in the wall. Of course you have to have the appropriate wiring. Mine was a 30 amp circuit I installed while building. Nothing is all that hard now that YouTube exists.

 

[charles sullivan]

Look at MrCool. https://mrcool.com/ These are units designed for DIY with precharged lines. I installed one in a new garage shop I built. Very very easy. One hole in the wall. Of course you have to have the appropriate wiring. Mine was a 30 amp circuit I installed while building. Nothing is all that hard now that YouTube exists.

Youtube!

 

[SurfnFish]

20K sounds high.
We installed a Mitsubishi mini-split in our mountain house three years ago just for the a/c. The house is small, 1200 sq', however the main room has 17' valted ceilings.
I knew our layout woudl work with a single head as by elevating the remote controlled output vane, it would both cool our main room and send cold air down the hall towards the bedrooms. So calc'd the size and sent it to three companies.
Received bids with a 30% swing in price, which is why it always smart to secure multiple bids.
Went with the Mutsubishi unit, $4200 up and running, saved a grand by running the dedicated electrical feed to the outside condensor (and adjacent utility outlet required by code), and the wall mounted unit myrself.
We hit 97 yesterday, and the Mitsu kept the house at 74 running the unit on the lowest fan setting. During summer when we're using it a lot, our electrical bill goes up around $15 to $20 a month. Mini-splits are extrememly efficient.
Last winter during low teens temps we lost the control board to our gas central air furnace, and during the week wait for the control board to arrive, the Mitsu kept our main room at 70 at night without having to run the gas fireplace to supplement it.
If you're currently running your house on wall heaters and window box a/c's, you are going to save more on electrical during the course of a year than you think, and will definitely increase your comfort. Get those other bids and the go for it.

 

[mtskibum16]

Have been thinking about installing three zones of mini-slit AC/Heating to replace inefficient wall heaters and window AC units. Just received an instillation quote of $20,000 which seems higher than researched averages. The expensive instillation cost plus keeping the juice running 24/7 are definite cons. Pros are PUD kick back and supposed 30% reduction in monthly energy bills.

What say you to these claims from your own or someone else's experiences?

I just installed a 2 zone system this spring. Install was not bad (can be easier or harder based on layout of your house and locations of indoor and outdoor units). We have been supremely satisfied with it so far. Haven't used it for heat yet, but it has been incredible for cooling. I had a number of quotes averaging something like $14k for a 2 zone install. I installed ours for something like $3.5k all in including all odds and ends, tools, and permits after rebates.

Edit: my quotes and my installed price include all the electrical work as well. It's all quite simple.

 

[jaredoconnor]

My 2021 4-level townhome has 3 mini splits; one on each of the top 3 floors. The zoning doesn’t work properly; if one zone has reached temp and the other two haven’t, that zone will keep running and overshoot the temp. I have a Lennox system. In my research, I discovered that some Mitsubishi systems have the same issue. I wouldn’t be surprised if many others do, too.

 

[Josh]

Look at MrCool. https://mrcool.com/ These are units designed for DIY with precharged lines. I installed one in a new garage shop I built. Very very easy. One hole in the wall. Of course you have to have the appropriate wiring. Mine was a 30 amp circuit I installed while building. Nothing is all that hard now that YouTube exists.

This is what my neighbor used and probably what I will as well if I install one in the garage eventually.

 

[SurfnFish]

My 2021 4-level townhome has 3 mini splits; one on each of the top 3 floors. The zoning doesn’t work properly; if one zone has reached temp and the other two haven’t, that zone will keep running and overshoot the temp. I have a Lennox system. In my research, I discovered that some Mitsubishi systems have the same issue. I wouldn’t be surprised if many others do, too.

Only real temp/control modulation available in a multi-head mini-split is fan control at the various heads, still more efficient than a traditional central air system delivering air temp based on thermstat location and at fixed CFM per register outlet.

"The compressor modulates to match it's output to the number of indoor units calling for heat/cool, but each indoor unit typically runs at it's rated capacity for the given fan speed. The outdoor unit modulates (fan speed, compressor speed, expansion valve control, outdoor coil circuit control, etc) to maintain refrigerant temps pressures and flows, the compressor and fan speeds and expansion valve positions will all be constantly varying to maintain the refrigerant temp/pressure/flow at nominal values. So there is modulation, but not so much in the output of the heads."

 

[jaredoconnor]

Only real temp/control modulation available in a multi-head mini-split is fan control at the various heads, still more efficient than a traditional central air system delivering air temp based on thermstat location and at fixed CFM per register outlet.

"The compressor modulates to match it's output to the number of indoor units calling for heat/cool, but each indoor unit typically runs at it's rated capacity for the given fan speed. The outdoor unit modulates (fan speed, compressor speed, expansion valve control, outdoor coil circuit control, etc) to maintain refrigerant temps pressures and flows, the compressor and fan speeds and expansion valve positions will all be constantly varying to maintain the refrigerant temp/pressure/flow at nominal values. So there is modulation, but not so much in the output of the heads."

Doesn’t each head have its own refrigerant line?

If so, why can’t the heat pump just stop pumping to that head? I know there would be a turndown period, where the remaining refrigerant is used up, but that won’t last forever.

If not, and fan control is the only way to actually achieve “zoning”, then the Lennox bug becomes more clear; the fans never turn off.

 

[mtskibum16]

Doesn’t each head have its own refrigerant line?

If so, why can’t the heat pump just stop pumping to that head? I know there would be a turndown period, where the remaining refrigerant is used up, but that won’t last forever.

If not, and fan control is the only way to actually achieve “zoning”, then the Lennox bug becomes more clear; the fans never turn off.

With my two zone MrCool the indoor units can modulate fan speed as well as cooling. I'm not sure if cooling is "on/off" or if output temp can be modulated, but it is common one is blowing cold air and one will just be in fan mode with no cooling happening even though both units are set to "cool" setting. The thermostats on them are questionable and it's taken some tinkering to find the right temp settings for each to get the desired comfort in each space.

 

[mtskibum16]

They aren't perfect but it's a MASSIVE upgrade over wall heaters and windows A/C units! The drama free quiet cool in our house this week has been amazing vs having multiple portable A/Cs on full blast and still not keeping up all while having to yell or have the TV cranked to hear anything over them. I expect similar limitations but overall massive improvements this winter vs the wall heaters.

 

[Vandelay Industries]

We had a heat pump and air handler installed last summer. It's been well worth the investment. Constant temperature and no noise.

 

[mtskibum16]

I'm mainly just irritated at myself for not doing this so much sooner! They have probably fixed it, but we bought ours through Home Depot online. At the time they were selling the "Gen 3" units for about $1000 off but shipping Gen 4 units to everyone. I think out 27k BTU 2 zone unit was around $3000 shipped. I probably spent around $1000 on odds and ends (permits, foundation, electrical, tools, line covers, etc) then got an $800 rebate PSE.

Anyone interested in specifics or install details, feel free to hit me up. I did a lot of research and learned some lessons I'd be happy to pass on.

 

[LBL]

This is what my neighbor used and probably what I will as well if I install one in the garage eventually.

$1500