NFR Heat Pumps for HVAC

[Robert Engleheart]

My 24 year old dual package HVAC unit is overdue for replacement; still working but well past lifespan and they have a tendency to fail on either a hot or cold snap so I am going to be proactive and replace it now. Looking a a ducted packaged system by Bosch, all 4 contractors I’ve contacted only carry Bosch in a ducted unit. Anyone here using them? The numbers work out in that with the ITC (20% tax credit) the heat pump is about the same as a traditional packaged electric AC/gas heat unit; about $12K for a 3 ton unit, includes duct testing and sealing if required and new registers. Pleased to see the efficiency ratings are 18.5 SEER on the AC(compared to about 10 on existing unit) and 9HSPF on heating side, cooling being the driver here where we average 30 days a year of 100 degree or better. Heating should be fine for an air to air unit, rated to -4 and we rarely see temperatures below freezing; 48 low this morning, should approach 60 this afternoon. Been around several mini-split systems which impressed but never a ducted system, believe they may be relatively newer. Be interested in hearing from any users of them.
Not related to me but interesting to note Washington is or will soon be requiring heat pumps on all new construction.

 

[SurfnFish]

When our mini-split was installed three years ago for summer a/c, had a HVAC discussion with the installer (at start of my path to facility management wrenched in buildings as a stationary engineer)...ducted heat pumps had become the go to for his company's new construction and central heating retrofit jobs, and had just installed one in his own home. Said they were proving to be very reliable and holding temps on either side of the temp range.
Should be good to go

 

[dirty dog]

Here is what little I know as a retired HVAC tech.
When living in E. Wenatchee, WA I bought a home that had a single air handler with electric strip heat, no A/C.
I installed an A/C unit, (split system) in the ducting.
Two years later I removed the A/C unit and installed a heat pump. I cut my winter time electric bill in half.
Worked great even below zero temps and the A/C also worked great in 100 degree heat.
Brands of equipment are not all equal.
I have no experience with Bosch except as my dishwasher.

 

[Wetswinger]

I have a Trane heat pump/natural gas hybrid system. Heat pump down to 40 degrees then gas takes over. Works well. Sometimes there has been a slight hesitation as it nears the change over temp. Nice to have the gas when needed. 18 degrees this morning. Mostly works on heat pump as Puget Sound is cool but not usually very cold. I just installed a solar panel system plus changed out the gas water heater for an electric to take advantage of the solar panels. The solar panel system was just finished so I haven't seen any results yet.. There has been a small savings in the monthly bill by eliminating the total gas furnace but electric use is up because the heat pump runs a lot. It's air temp. production is lower so there's a trade-off. As natural gas rates increase, I'm sure the heat pump will be a good choice, plus the A/C works beautifully..

 

[kmudgn]

I have a 15F degree heat pump/ac system here in NH with oil furnace backup. Very happy with the unit, saves me over 50% on heating cost vs oil. It is a Bosch unit, but my understanding that the "brain" made by Mitsubishi

 

[Robert Engleheart]

I have a 15F degree heat pump/ac system here in NH with oil furnace backup. Very happy with the unit, saves me over 50% on heating cost vs oil. It is a Bosch unit, but my understanding that the "brain" made by Mitsubishi

The inverter compressor is by Mitsubishi, variable speed. In the 37 years here I’ve seen sub 20f twice, only for a day or two at most. The AC performance is what I’m hoping will be most improved in terms of comfort and efficiency.

 

[Westfly Refugee]

NW ORegon. Had a LP furnace with ductwork. The furnace was getting old and LP delivered might be the most expensive fuel you can use.
So, a couple months ago had Sunglo install a Carrier heat pump system with an air handler that has a heat strip for the coldest days (like right now with recent evening temps of 18F!) and an EcoBe smart thermostat.

I have a Earthstove fireplace insert to augment the heat pump. The Earthstove used to be the home's primary heat source. I am not missing all the labor involved with firewood. Just nice to have now as a backup.

The Carrier ducted heatpump system has been in place less than 6 months but so far I really like it and from the electric bills thus far I'm pretty sure the annual expense will be less than the LP-plus-firewood system it replaced.

 

[Greggor]

Eight years ago, we had a Mitsubishi 2 Hi Hyper Heat outdoor heatpump installed along with a 4 port manifold serving a Mitsubishi Air Handler downstairs using existing ductwork, and one indoor wall head located in the master bedroom upstairs.

Although PUD recommended a 10 kw heat strip for backup to to air handler, the contractor correctly said it would not be necessary. The contractor also correctly projected that our configuration would meet our needs 98% of the time, but recommended extra ports on the manifold in case additional wall heads might be required upstairs for cooling at > 95 degree temperatures.

Heating was never going to be an issue. The major takeaway here was it's just tougher to push cold air upstairs via the air handler located downstairs.

So far our only issue has been on those rare >95 degree days, when we can only cool to 70 degrees. We'll take that here in the Seattle area. If we start having multiple days at >100 degrees, we'll install another head upstairs.

Our home is a 2,200 ft split level, heating costs were cut in half, and cooling costs have been minimal, again Seattle area.

Hope this helps in some way, but my big learn was the difficulty in moving cool air upstairs via an air handler. Damn physics!

 

[RCF]

In the last decade there has been a huge consolidation in HVAC industry. Brands exist but many are owned by the same conglomerate. For example Ingersoll owns Trane and American Standard. Units are produced on the same line, same parts, and painted different colors. Prices vary. Ingersoll also has a 50/50 partnership with Mitsubishi for US market.

May be worthwhile to understand more about manufacturers/brands prior to selecting one.

Sorry to add to the confusion

Side note: been using heat pumps and ac for 25 years at our place. Luv them...

 

[RCF]

Hope this helps in some way, but my big learn was the difficulty in moving cool air upstairs via an air handler. Damn physics!

Totally agree. Our 3 story house stays hot in the summer on top floor. Next cooling system will different.

 

[RCF]

One should also understand if there are parts and technicians to support repairs. My MIL and my family both had Bosch appliances that had issues. Finding techs and parts was close to impossible. Ended up replacing the appliances with a different brand.

Please don't forget about maintenence and repairs. Stuff happens and ongoing support is just as important, if not more so, to be able to continue using the investment.

 

[Robert Engleheart]

One should also understand if there are parts and technicians to support repairs. My MIL and my family both had Bosch appliances that had issues. Finding techs and parts was close to impossible. Ended up replacing the appliances with a different brand.

Please don't forget about maintenence and repairs. Stuff happens and ongoing support is just as important, if not more so, to be able to continue using the investment.

Lots of manufacturers had trouble replacing parts the last couple years, not isolated to Bosch. My SILs agricultural equipment dealership has trouble getting parts and tractors, harvesters, etc. Not familiar with Bosch appliances other than they seem to be higher end, cost wise.

My comfort level with them is that of 4 contractors that I have bids from they all sell only Bosch in the DUCTED PACKAGE systems. When I asked why the answer was the contractor feels they are superior in compressor modulation and blower speed range. The contractor who is low bidder offers a 10 year warranty on labor in addition to Bosch 10 years on parts. Other only offer 1 or 2 years on labor.

you’re correct on integration, the Bosch inverter compressor is by Mitsubishi.