Follow up question to SilverFly's post On Warning to New Fly Tiers

[Deleted member 1853]

I started tying last fall and seem to be headed down the same road accumulating material I may never use. The biggest mistake I made was going click happy on Youtube. "That fly pattern looks cool and that one and that one and oh got to try that pattern and so on". (I have software that allows me to capture video so I can capture multiple fly “recipes” without taking time to try a particular pattern.) Not a wise thing to do.

So now I am starting to go back thru videos and make another shopping list. (One of too many shopping lists already)

Any of you know of a cross reference for material? i.e. These hairs or feathers are similar to each other.

I realize that just as in other things like wine, whiskey, cooking ingredients, whatever, there is only one truly good product for a particular occasion, but I can hope right??

 

[Driftless Dan]

I don't have your solution but gathering materials that way is a waste of money. Instead, find the flies that work for the species you wish to fly fish for, find the patterns for them, list all the materials to see if there are duplicates, and start there.

THEN find a video of a tyer tying that pattern.

 

[Deleted member 1853]

As I said I have acted most unwisely. Hopefully I guess then others reading this, will learn from my mistake. However, there is still the issue of how you know which fly's work? According to the YouTube tiers, all their flies are great and all require different materials.
Such is life on social media.

p.s. Sorry for being cynical, but learning to ty is rewarding but frustrating

 

[RCF]

Have you considered what other patterns can I tie with the materials I currently have?

Remember, much like cooking recipes, fly patterns are the current tyer's recipe. You can make some changes to the recipe and, maybe, it will work as well if not better than the pattern from Youtube.

E.g. Maybe you have some brown hackle. The recipe calls for ginger hackle. Use the brown. Recipe calls for white calf tail. All you have is white poly yarn. Use it. Do you think the fish will notice the difference?

 

[Zak]

As I said I have acted most unwisely. Hopefully I guess then others reading this, will learn from my mistake. However, there is still the issue of how you know which fly's work? According to the YouTube tiers, all their flies are great and all require different materials.
Such is life on social media.

p.s. Sorry for being cynical, but learning to ty is rewarding but frustrating

I like tying flies that have been around for 100 years (or much longer). There is a reason they are still around! And they often share a small set of common materials.

But I'm easily led astray into buying new materials and tying new to me flies, too. Just a couple days a go a got a spool of Madeira Glamour Thread No. 8 in the mail and am finding things to do with it.

 

[RCF]

I like tying flies that have been around for 100 years (or much longer). There is a reason they are still around! And they often share a small set of common materials.

A couple of older fly examples that work great for trout: Royal Wulff and Carey Special came into being in late '20s. Royal Coachman later half of the 1800s.

 

[Deleted member 1853]

I guess it is a catch 22 issue. Buy the material I need to tie the flys that work BUT how do I know what flys work without buying material
for some that don't work.

I am sorry. It has been a frustrating day. I need to just shut up and deal with it.

Thanks to all of you for your advice!!!!

 

[SnailEye]

I get a recommendation for a fly that works first. Talk to friends, a trusted fly shop or whatever. Then get a picture of one or buy one to use as an example. Figure out how to make it. Then I can go to my materials and see what I have on hand. Usually I have most of what I need that is "close enough". Only as a last resort do I go out and buy yet more materials.

 

[mcswny]

I guess it is a catch 22 issue. Buy the material I need to tie the flys that work BUT how do I know what flys work without buying material
for some that don't work.

I am sorry. It has been a frustrating day. I need to just shut up and deal with it.

Thanks to all of you for your advice!!!!

Honestly, this is too vague to answer. Just give us an example of what you’re working through. Some people will tell you you’re x, y and z. They’ll give you blanket advice, like above. And it’s not to say they aren’t right but it’s not necessarily helpful for where you’re at. But at least a couple people will respond be helpful. What fly are you trying to tie right now, and what material are you missing and what do you have that you can sub?

One note in response to this (yes I’m giving you a blanket statement)

“BUT how do I know what flys work without”

Just because someone makes a video about tying a fly, or even sells it through a fly shop etc. DOES NOT mean it will “work”. That’s dependent on location, day etc. for instance. You see an Andrew Grillo’s foam monstrosity. And say, “it’s Andrew Grillos, it’s gotta WORK”. But you got to take into account what fish, location and time of year he developed it for.

I’m also not convinced that just because say, umpqua sells a fly, that means it’s a proven winner. Flies catch anglers more than fish (or whatever the saying is).

Tie some flies, fish them. If they work, keep tying them. If they don’t, figure it out. That’s why we tie, sure as shit not to save money.

 

[troutpocket]

I bought a lot of flies before I started tying. When I did decide to start, I had a good list of proven patterns to learn. Still have drawers full of materials I rarely use .

My formative tying years were pre- YouTube so I went to a lot of sportsman’s shows and met excellent tyers… And bought the materials to tie the patterns they were selling. Some of those became my standard flies but certainly more either didn’t produce in my local fisheries, or were more work than I am willing to do.

My suggestions are to buy some flies at your fly shop and learn what works. And when you tie, try to find a local person with more experience to tie with. I’ve learned a lot at beer and tying nights. People pull out their good stuff and demo for the group.

 

[mcswny]

One other thing. The idea of "what works" is so relative. For instance, a Pat's Rubber Legs. It's a pretty ubiquitous pattern. Everyone's fished it, everyone's caught fish on it and most people love it. It's staple on a river I fish a lot (today even). Simply--it works. But I can't catch a fish on it to save my life. Don't ask me why. But it's all to say, most fish will eat most flies. Don't over think it.

 

[nwbobber]

I used to fish with a guy that loved to fish what he called bucktails. They were bushy high floating things kind of like a stimulator, but different. many times I would have told him that doesn't match the hatch or whatever, but he would be outfishing every one with his bucktail because the guy knew how to twitch that thing just right to get the fish interested. Sometimes it isn't the fly that is the key to catching fish but how you fish it.
If I were just starting out, I would not worry too much about all the killer flies people talk about. know that you can catch fish with just a few flies... the old standards work. A gold ribbed hares ear or a pheasant tail nymph will catch fish if you do your part, and they take few materials. Adding a bead is good. Learn to tie an elk hair caddis, and an Adams. Add a hopper and an ant. It doesn't matter that much which pattern as much as learning how and when to fish it. If I had those flies and I was going trout fishing I would have confidence that I could catch some fish.
Another thing along the lines of keeping it simple. When you sit down to tie, do a dozen of one pattern before you switch it up. That will keep you more organized, and you will become a better tier faster. I still have trouble with that one, I try to change things, tweak the patterns a bit as I go and end up with a mess on my desk. I am trying to get better.

 

[Mike Cline]

Don’t be a slave to a precise pattern—precise materials and colors. Instead, master the styles of different flies using whatever material might work for that style. Recently I’ve been tying a Kelly Gallop sculpin streamer pattern he calls the “Zoo Cougar” for an upcoming tying demonstration. It’s been around for several decades and is an extremely effective fly. It you watch his tying video, you’d think you had to tie it with a marabou tail, pearl estaz body, white calf tail under wing and a natural mallard flank wing. But, such is not the case as the tail can be Finn raccoon, fox tail or any number of synthetic streamer materials. As long as the body is a light color, you can use braid, dubbing or chenille. The underwing which serves a specific purpose of stabilizing the wing feather does not have to be white calf tail. Squirrel tail or stiff goat hair works just as well. And the wing can be tied with any number of flank shaped feathers from teal, pintail, gadwall, etc. What is important however is staying true to construction style of the fly. Don’t be a slave to the precise details of any pattern. Watch ten different videos tying a PT nymph and they will all vary to some degree, however the finished fly will be true to the PT nymph style.

 

[SteelHeadDave]

What kind of fish are you targeting?

 

[Deleted member 1853]

Let me add some information to this. Before I retired, I came from a very technical environment. You had specs and you did not vary from them, or you had a known replacement for an item.

Today I brought up some videos to try and as usual did not have the correct material.

I live in bass and panfish territory, so no fly shops or people who fly fish. I bring up fly fishing to fellow fishermen and I get "why? too much work for what you get" etc.

My original question was " is there a cross reference for material?" I should have just asked that and kept the rest of my thoughts to myself.
I appreciate all of you answering even the slightly harsh ones .

Oh, I will get it, but I am not an artist. I have to have specs. The lack of exact length dimensions of hooks drives me crazy too. The size of a number 8 hook should be the same no matter the maker.

Anyway mama wants to work on a jig saw puzzle and I need to settle down and use some common sense on fly tying as all of you have reminded me.

Take care and have a good evening!

 

[nwbobber]

Keep at it, and soon those that ask why will be asking you how. Synthetic materials are where things get really complicated as there are multiple brands of things that are quite similar. You can still get good advice from a fly shop on the phone or with some emails. Be clear about what you want to do fish wise, and ask questions about the suitability af the material that you have, and I'm sure you will find that they are willing to help get you going in the right direction. I am not all that well versed on bass and panfish flyfishing, although when I first started flyfishing I found bluegill and sunfish to be willing participants with the same flies I would use for trout.

 

[FinLuver]

I guess it is a catch 22 issue. Buy the material I need to tie the flys that work BUT how do I know what flys work without buying material
for some that don't work.

I am sorry. It has been a frustrating day. I need to just shut up and deal with it.

Thanks to all of you for your advice!!!!

Rather than starting your questions about materials, how bout ya tell us where you are located; what streams or lakes you are fishing; and what species you are targeting??

That’s a shorter road travelled to finding and consolidating materials needed.

When I visit a fly shop, sewing/fabric/ hobby stores, or see a live animal I always ask myself…”What can I tie with that?”

As previously mentioned…master the basics of tying and tying materials…then experiment to your hearts desire.

One thing about fly tying, is it’s not rocket science. As you develop and evolve in your tying…fish the flies you tie…you will then start asking yourself more technical questions based on your observations.

That’s where your substitution answers will be found.

I like tying hairwing steelhead flies…if I go for a black colored wing, I will use buck tail, squirrel, calf (kip) tail, Icelandic sheep…all are still black but will give the fly a different look and will swim differently as well.

 

[mcswny]

Oh those bass and panfish are going to be even less discerning than stupid trout.

You're retired now, time to loosen up and just tie some flies.

 

[Matt B]

Let me add some information to this. Before I retired, I came from a very technical environment. You had specs and you did not vary from them, or you had a known replacement for an item.

Today I brought up some videos to try and as usual did not have the correct material.

I live in bass and panfish territory, so no fly shops or people who fly fish. I bring up fly fishing to fellow fishermen and I get "why? too much work for what you get" etc.

My original question was " is there a cross reference for material?" I should have just asked that and kept the rest of my thoughts to myself.
I appreciate all of you answering even the slightly harsh ones .

Oh, I will get it, but I am not an artist. I have to have specs. The lack of exact length dimensions of hooks drives me crazy too. The size of a number 8 hook should be the same no matter the maker.

Anyway mama wants to work on a jig saw puzzle and I need to settle down and use some common sense on fly tying as all of you have reminded me.

Take care and have a good evening!

I like your attitude. Time to embrace your inner artist, use “specs” as “guidance” and go crazy.

 

[Matt B]

Can I add—as a technical person, think of the function of the material needed. Does it need to float or sink? Be wrappable? Be a certain color? Why is that way? Is it because it is trying to imitate a certain prey item, or move a certain way, or does it have to be one color or another? Etc