Fire Hole hooks

Ceviche · Mar 18, 2022

I know a lot of people here love Firehole hooks. Sharp like nothing else. Well, I recently tied up a couple of my favorite patterns with them. Unfortunately, I’ve been experiencing two issues with fishing them live.

First, because they are as sharp as they are, they have a knack for snagging hard to anything and everything on the bottom in an unforgiving way. Second, I’ve found that just about all, if not the vast majority of trout I’ve hooked have managed to quickly slipped free.

I suppose I need to change up my game, when it comes to striking back. However, I can’t help but wonder if the long, thin taper of the point makes it easier for fish to throw the hook.

Any thoughts about this?

Old406Kid · Mar 18, 2022

That definitely makes sense, especially losing fish compared to a hook with a pinched down barb.
That said, from the glass half full side I'd much rather have a Firehole hook in my finger than one with a pinched barb.

Jake Watrous · Mar 18, 2022

I loved firehole hooks when I first found them, but have moved away from them for a few reasons, one of which I think you are seeing a little of. This is all just my experience, though. Your mileage may vary.

1. They don’t post absolute sizes, but rather use X sizes relative to firehole’s other hooks. A 16 from firehole can be larger than a 12 by another company.

The only company I’ve found that posts absolute sizes (dimensions and wire thickness) is Ahrex.

2. Despite the heavy gauge of wire, I’ve straightened proportionally more Firehole hooks than any other brand when truly doing an apples-apples comparison. You have to be careful because a firehole #12 may be another brand’s #8. What I’m talking about here is having firehole hooks that are the dimension of another brand’s #16 or #18 bending out more. The firehole hook may be labeled a #20, but if it’s the size of a #16 then it gets compared against #16s and not other brand’s #20. The only other ones approaching this percentage were Gamakatsu SC-15s when I hooked a hot coho or blackmouth.

3. Something about firehole’s gap and point angle seems to snag more yet not hold fish as well. I have not tried firehole’s competition hooks as I switched before finding them and I now prefer Ahrex competition points as they bend in a little. Seems more positive on fish and less snag-heavy.

Zak · Mar 18, 2022

I've tied with FHS more than I've fished with them. This is great, but disappointing, info.

Mike Cline · Mar 19, 2022

How to Design a New Fishhook | Fly Tyer

Creating new hooks is about more than just sharpening and bending thin pieces of wire. And with all the hooks already on the market, why would you even

www.flytyer.com

Tom Butler · Mar 19, 2022

I have not used firehole, but have used a couple boxes of both Fulling Mills and Hanak barbless jig style hooks. It wasn't too long ago I came to the conclusion the fish come off a fulling mills more often than the hanak. With the hanak, which I tried first, I found any lapse in tension may give a fish a chance to come off, but I seem to loose more with the FM. Cost me a good one the other day. But........ I also like to be able to dump a fish without netting or touching and both hooks work better than a pinched barb for this. I really prefer jig hooks lately for the lack of hangups compared to standard hooks in the river. I fish a lot of jig hook patterns lately.

Mike Cline · Mar 19, 2022

I tie exclusively on Firehole hooks for my own use—811s for big unweighted streamers, 718s for hoppers and buggers and 316/321s for soft hackles.

When swinging streamers I pretty much used to let the fish hook themselves and only applied enough tension to land the fish. That worked fine with narrow gapped, barbed hooks, but the super sharp FHs forced a change in technique. I’ve found that a quick, sharp hook set results in more solid hook ups—driving the hook point deep so the wide hook gap is actually the point of contact with the fish. The wider gaps on FH hooks allows the hook point to kinda be the focal point of tension when a fish strikes. The wider gap allows the hook to pivot more on the point than narrower gapped hooks. Driving the hook home usually puts the fish on the gap and results in far fewer slip offs.

It took me a while to start applying that sharp hook set after decades of letting the fish hook themselves. It works just as well with hoppers, small buggers and soft hackles with the wide gapped hooks.

Tom Butler · Mar 19, 2022

Mike Cline said:
I tie exclusively on Firehole hooks for my own use—811s for big unweighted streamers, 718s for hoppers and buggers and 316/321s for soft hackles.

When swinging streamers I pretty much used to let the fish hook themselves and only applied enough tension to land the fish. That worked fine with narrow gapped, barbed hooks, but the super sharp FHs forced a change in technique. I’ve found that a quick, sharp hook set results in more solid hook ups—driving the hook point deep so the wide hook gap is actually the point of contact with the fish. The wider gaps on FH hooks allows the hook point to kinda be the focal point of tension when a fish strikes. The wider gap allows the hook to pivot more on the point than narrower gapped hooks. Driving the hook home usually puts the fish on the gap and results in far fewer slip offs.

It took me a while to start applying that sharp hook set after decades of letting the fish hook themselves. It works just as well with hoppers, small buggers and soft hackles with the wide gapped hooks.

I too found that a sharp snap of the wrist was needed to set the hook, esp. fishing under an indicator.

Ceviche · Mar 19, 2022

Jake, Mike, and Tom,

Great replies, great info to digest. I will see if changing the way I set hook makes a difference in keeping fish on. As far as tying is concerned, I will see if I can find smaller hook sizes with longer shanks for my streamers and wet flies. I hope that will lessen the odds of snagging bottom so hard.

Jake Watrous · Mar 19, 2022

Just beware the fact that longer shanks May lever the hook out of their mouth.

Ceviche said:
Jake, Mike, and Tom,

Great replies, great info to digest. I will see if changing the way I set hook makes a difference in keeping fish on. As far as tying is concerned, I will see if I can find smaller hook sizes with longer shanks for my streamers and wet flies. I hope that will lessen the odds of snagging bottom so hard.

Billy · Mar 19, 2022

I only have used the longer jig hook (on left) by Firehole. The first time I tried them was fishing in lakes with sinking lines. The results were not good. Numerous fish came unbuckled. Last fall I came across the fly I had tied with same hook. 0/2 and again the fish came unbuckled trying to get them in. I won't try them again a third time. I am just not a fan of a curve inward for at least the way I fish. I like a bigger hook gap and traditional style like on right in the below photo.

krusty · Mar 20, 2022

I've used them a fair amount. Certainly very sharp and appear to be easier than others to disgorge...and deliberately relaxing tension on a FH hooked fish seems to result in more 'non-handling' releases. I'm always happiest (as is the fish!) when I can get a look at a fish in the water and then release it with slack line.

claude · Mar 20, 2022

Jake said:
I loved firehole hooks when I first found them, but have moved away from them for a few reasons, one of which I think you are seeing a little of. This is all just my experience, though. Your mileage may vary.

1. They don’t post absolute sizes, but rather use X sizes relative to firehole’s other hooks. A 16 from firehole can be larger than a 12 by another company.

The only company I’ve found that posts absolute sizes (dimensions and wire thickness) is Ahrex.

2. Despite the heavy gauge of wire, I’ve straightened proportionally more Firehole hooks than any other brand when truly doing an apples-apples comparison. You have to be careful because a firehole #12 may be another brand’s #8. What I’m talking about here is having firehole hooks that are the dimension of another brand’s #16 or #18 bending out more. The firehole hook may be labeled a #20, but if it’s the size of a #16 then it gets compared against #16s and not other brand’s #20. The only other ones approaching this percentage were Gamakatsu SC-15s when I hooked a hot coho or blackmouth.

3. Something about firehole’s gap and point angle seems to snag more yet not hold fish as well. I have not tried firehole’s competition hooks as I switched before finding them and I now prefer Ahrex competition points as they bend in a little. Seems more positive on fish and less snag-heavy.

I've encountered the same regarding sizing of their hooks. Have only bought a few packs of them online but IMO they were all way too big for their listed size.

mickey rat · Mar 20, 2022

Can't say had many issues with Fireholes as far as losing fish or breakage. Agree that the sizing is confusing as hell even after talking to Joe the owner. I've become used to them by now. I just wish more manufacturers would get onboard with barbless offerings. I really like the Ahrex hooks for the salt and I'll be trying some freshwater dry styles that FH doesn't carry. Thanks Jake!

Mike Cline · Mar 20, 2022

mickey rat said:
Can't say had many issues with Fireholes as far as losing fish or breakage. Agree that the sizing is confusing as hell even after talking to Joe the owner. I've become used to them by now. I just wish more manufacturers would get onboard with barbless offerings. I really like the Ahrex hooks for the salt and I'll be trying some freshwater dry styles that FH doesn't carry. Thanks Jake!

Thoughts on the Fly | J. Stockard Fly Fishing's Blog

Welcome to J. Stockard's blog Thoughts on the Fly—your source for fly patterns, tying tips, reviews, and entertaining fishing stories.

www.jsflyfishing.com

Wes Penny · Mar 20, 2022

I use Firehole hooks almost exclusively now and find the wide gape resulted in significantly less fish lost. The 718 is my go to chironomid hook after being dissatisfied with the Diachi 1760, Sierra 2312, and Alec Jacksons. I’ve never had one straighten on me. The 718 is a very versatile hook and I use it for everything. Hook sizing is so mixed up now that until you get used to each specific brand you can’t go by listed sizes etc. I have to see a hook in hand before I’ll buy it.

Buzzy · Mar 20, 2022

Wes Penny said:
Hook sizing is so mixed up now that until you get used to each specific brand you can’t go by listed sizes etc.

I agree with your comment on hook sizing being mixed up by different manufacturers and hook style. I think the 718 is a great hook.

Old406Kid · Mar 20, 2022

An example of some differences in jig hook sizing.

Dave Boyle · Mar 21, 2022

I like the firehole 718s too for my chironomids and I like getting 36 vs 25 hooks. That said their sizes are crazy, their 14s are huge compared to 1760s. A while back at Avid they had a new batch in from 12 to 22 with the exception of 16s, it was really odd and of course my favourite size….

Dave

Dave Boyle · Mar 21, 2022

Here’s an example of the 718 versus a Daichi 1760. On the plus side the 718 is much stronger as Wes alluded to and being larger, easier to tie nice looking sz 14s

Dave