brownheron
corvus ossifragus
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2024 WA Coastal Steelhead Regs
- Thread starter brownheron
- Start date
I fish from the bank cause I swing flies. But can we just all admit the no fishing from a floating device rule is a hollow fake effort at conservation.
Now there's a bunch of guys standing in my spot when they should be casting at redds and spawning markers while side drifting to double digit glory.
But then again if they aren't doing that they are stomping on redds while trying to wade into the best spot cause they gotta fish without a boat.
I guess there's no winning.... Or is there....
Maybe make these guys drop anchor and cast. You know like we did in the dark ages before side drifting essentially ruined the culture of steelhead angling. You know before the double digit hookup Instagram bullshit. Let them stand off the redds and in their boats while stationary and cast. You can spread people out and prevent the mass dragging that is angling on the coast. This isn't the D. This is the coast with mainstem spawning and idiots standing in it. Let them stand in their boats and drop anchor. Do we really need fishing on the move while drifting on the willapa? The locals hate it. Most people hate the bank rule. It's applied on all the wrong reaches of stream.
Now there's a bunch of guys standing in my spot when they should be casting at redds and spawning markers while side drifting to double digit glory.
But then again if they aren't doing that they are stomping on redds while trying to wade into the best spot cause they gotta fish without a boat.
I guess there's no winning.... Or is there....
Maybe make these guys drop anchor and cast. You know like we did in the dark ages before side drifting essentially ruined the culture of steelhead angling. You know before the double digit hookup Instagram bullshit. Let them stand off the redds and in their boats while stationary and cast. You can spread people out and prevent the mass dragging that is angling on the coast. This isn't the D. This is the coast with mainstem spawning and idiots standing in it. Let them stand in their boats and drop anchor. Do we really need fishing on the move while drifting on the willapa? The locals hate it. Most people hate the bank rule. It's applied on all the wrong reaches of stream.
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too bad most of those folks Redd stomping simply don't care about stomping on redds with zero regard for the future of the fisheries...They'll continue to do as they do....seems like a lose lose on any of those coastal rivers.
These are simple animals. They will not leave the heated drift boat unless there's a reason to do so.
I often cite this event as my exodus into other passions. I feel very strongly it's effect on the culture of steelhead angling was profound and negative.
I dunno about the origins of steelhead culture, but I've always thought it was a bit toxic (I always felt/feel like an outsider there regardless of how I fish for them)....the above included (I'm sure played a big part), but not necessarily limited to just that.
Steelhead angling on the peninsula was not so that toxic for a long time. Sure there were assholes and guides that thought they were entitled but they were by far a small number and known. The double whammy was side drifting, guide explosion, and social media driving it all. It really made it not fun and not friendly. I still love to fish but I sure hate dealing with the throngs of self entitled ego marketing tards who make this their defining arena to be the greatest asshole version of themselves. You can't even escape them on lesser known waters cause somebody is broadcasting that shit with the full power of the internet. The culture used to be small pub that was welcoming. Now it's night club with a bunch of clueless twenty something dressed like idiots and peacocking for the camera and the bouncer out front. Pretty lame. Oh yeah, and all those guys would by majorly have a tenth of the success without side drifting. Maybe regulate that.
When the expected returns are down there are tools to that would largely end the fishing on redds. By far the simplest would to end fishing at the point that say less than 15% of the redds have been dug. Most coastal streams that would be the end of February, simple and effects everyone more or less equally. But most importantly it takes the burden off the fish and puts it on the anglers where it belongs.
Curt
Curt
Andy D
Steelhead
I do not agree that fishing from boat restrictions are hollow conservation measures. At least not on smaller rivers.
The rivers flowing into Willapa bay, the Wynoochee, and the Calawah are are easily fished from the bank, and have few places where you cannot cast across the river. They also have sections where you simply can't access without a boat, and can't conveniently fish except from a boat.
By restricting boat angling you give the fish areas to go unharassed and rest.
I found it puzzling last year that the Hoh was chosen for full boat restrictions over the Calawah and solduc, unless it was done to placate specific angler groups.
The rivers flowing into Willapa bay, the Wynoochee, and the Calawah are are easily fished from the bank, and have few places where you cannot cast across the river. They also have sections where you simply can't access without a boat, and can't conveniently fish except from a boat.
By restricting boat angling you give the fish areas to go unharassed and rest.
I found it puzzling last year that the Hoh was chosen for full boat restrictions over the Calawah and solduc, unless it was done to placate specific angler groups.
Andy D
Steelhead
While I do think this was part of it, it seemed to me like the Hoh was given to the spey crowed and Quil to the boats. It makes much more senses the other way around to me.
At least for the Calawah and sol duc. They have more water that is harder to get out of the boat in, and do not change their form easily, making it easier to target the same holding spots/fish day after day. While the Hoh and the Bogey change regularly and are harder to pattern for holding fish.
Sol Duc too.
That’s a hard river to bank or swing without boat access. The good swing spots a few and far apart. During the no fishing from the boat rule was in place I witnessed far less pressure.
Quick story: I was out one day when there’s this guide boat just downstream. Guy in the boat is fishing from the boat! NO FISHING FROM THE BOAT RULES IN AFFECT! I’m livid and want to say something to the guide but what’s the point?
Well I get to the takeout and off the boat comes the angler in a wheelchair. Gluppp. Another reminder to just keep your mouth shut.
brownheron
corvus ossifragus
We're all entitled to our opinions, but have either of you talked to anyone in the OPGA and asked them?
I have a few very close friends in that group and they are smart, thoughtful people that care a lot about the fish and probably do more in support of the resource than most on this board. They know the river better than anyone so whether you agree with them or not, their views are informed. They are as close as your keyboard and easy to find in Forks so my recommendation is you actually ask them what they think if you're interested in their perpsective on the regs.
Scapegoating and alienating other stakeholder groups is a big reason we can't make any progress on the big issues posed in the other thread I started and why we end up with things like no fishing from boats which will have marginal effects and best and could potentially make things worse in some cases. I'd rather up go after bigger more impactful things that, unfortunately, will require tons of advocacy/money, which means collaboration across multiple stakeholder groups with different incentives. I'm not holding my breath.
100% selfish - the boat regs actually helped my fishing as it did lower the traffic on the section of the Sol Duc I live on which doesn't have any good swing water or land access. That won't be the case this year but that's OK too. I saw at least 3 near bad accidents from my office window last year as people slipped around on the rocks trying to wade, mostly fly fishing. It would have been a long, cold ride to the takeout or they would be coming up the bank to my house...
As someone who found a dead angler in the river last year, my view is probably a bit biased.
I have a few very close friends in that group and they are smart, thoughtful people that care a lot about the fish and probably do more in support of the resource than most on this board. They know the river better than anyone so whether you agree with them or not, their views are informed. They are as close as your keyboard and easy to find in Forks so my recommendation is you actually ask them what they think if you're interested in their perpsective on the regs.
Scapegoating and alienating other stakeholder groups is a big reason we can't make any progress on the big issues posed in the other thread I started and why we end up with things like no fishing from boats which will have marginal effects and best and could potentially make things worse in some cases. I'd rather up go after bigger more impactful things that, unfortunately, will require tons of advocacy/money, which means collaboration across multiple stakeholder groups with different incentives. I'm not holding my breath.
100% selfish - the boat regs actually helped my fishing as it did lower the traffic on the section of the Sol Duc I live on which doesn't have any good swing water or land access. That won't be the case this year but that's OK too. I saw at least 3 near bad accidents from my office window last year as people slipped around on the rocks trying to wade, mostly fly fishing. It would have been a long, cold ride to the takeout or they would be coming up the bank to my house...
As someone who found a dead angler in the river last year, my view is probably a bit biased.
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Fishing from a boat on the Willapa (a small river) was prohibited for, like, forever as far as I knew. I haven't fished there in a few yeas, so allowing fishing from a boat there is news to me. I floated it in my canoe and then 1-man raft for decades, but always got out and waded to fish.
As far as conservation measures go, restricting sport fishing is only useful to the extent that sportfishing is limiting the steelhead population size. Is it? Has that question been asked and analyzed? Or does WDFW just assume that CNR fishiing on the wild runs is limiting population abundance? I'm asking because I haven't seen any data to so indicate. I know that we analyzed fishing on the Skagit and reliably concluded that fishing - both treaty and non-treaty - has had no measurable effect on population abundance. Does WDFW have any evidence that sportfishing on the coastal rivers contributes to what they call ". . . chronic low wild steelhead abundance?"
If there is such evidence, then there are a host of ways to reduce handling of wild steelhead by sportfishing. Any of those methods, which are restrictions, are legitimate means of effecting conservation. And nearly every one of those restrictions means that someone's ox is going to be gored. I think it was last year that WDFW produced data indicating that fishing from boats was significantly more effective in catching steelhead than bank fishing. So restricting boat fishing is one of the easiest management tools to reduce the number of wild steelhead handled if that reduction is necessary for conservation. Closing the fishing season earlier, as Smalma posted, would be another effective method. No single method is more "right" than another. I think what WDFW was looking for was the method most likely to achieve the goal of reducing handling of wild steelhead while maintaining the most angling opportunity. I have no idea if that objective was realized or not.
Different segments of the public have different ideas about conservation. I remember when the Wildcat Steelhead Club (Skagit County) advocated that the Skagit should be open to harvesting 2 steelhead a day, period, or closing the river to all fishing. Of course absolutist reasoning like that makes WDFW's job simple; just close the river to fishing forever. Fortunately for most of us, other members of the public interest had other ideas about achieving conservation objectives that work and provide a lot of fishing opportunity.
As far as conservation measures go, restricting sport fishing is only useful to the extent that sportfishing is limiting the steelhead population size. Is it? Has that question been asked and analyzed? Or does WDFW just assume that CNR fishiing on the wild runs is limiting population abundance? I'm asking because I haven't seen any data to so indicate. I know that we analyzed fishing on the Skagit and reliably concluded that fishing - both treaty and non-treaty - has had no measurable effect on population abundance. Does WDFW have any evidence that sportfishing on the coastal rivers contributes to what they call ". . . chronic low wild steelhead abundance?"
If there is such evidence, then there are a host of ways to reduce handling of wild steelhead by sportfishing. Any of those methods, which are restrictions, are legitimate means of effecting conservation. And nearly every one of those restrictions means that someone's ox is going to be gored. I think it was last year that WDFW produced data indicating that fishing from boats was significantly more effective in catching steelhead than bank fishing. So restricting boat fishing is one of the easiest management tools to reduce the number of wild steelhead handled if that reduction is necessary for conservation. Closing the fishing season earlier, as Smalma posted, would be another effective method. No single method is more "right" than another. I think what WDFW was looking for was the method most likely to achieve the goal of reducing handling of wild steelhead while maintaining the most angling opportunity. I have no idea if that objective was realized or not.
Different segments of the public have different ideas about conservation. I remember when the Wildcat Steelhead Club (Skagit County) advocated that the Skagit should be open to harvesting 2 steelhead a day, period, or closing the river to all fishing. Of course absolutist reasoning like that makes WDFW's job simple; just close the river to fishing forever. Fortunately for most of us, other members of the public interest had other ideas about achieving conservation objectives that work and provide a lot of fishing opportunity.
Most locals on the Willapa detest the drift boats and rafters side drifting. It was better when you couldn't fish from a boat. I also use a canoe for this stretch or I walk.
brownheron
corvus ossifragus
I'm probably the last one to be able to divine the intent in WDFW decisions and they don't seem super interested in explaining... I'm having lunch with a friend from TU/WSI next week so this will definitely be part of our discussion. He's _also_ a good guy, and angler and cares about the resource. He's also very used to me complaining about lack of transparency ansd consistency in coastal steelhead regs. LOL
Conservation isn't my area of expertise (non-profit finance is sorta) so I try to talk to as many people as possible and get the benefit of their views so I can have a more informed perspective. I have learned a ton from Salmo and Smalma here through the years though I have also disagreed with them at times. It gets awkward sometimes as many of them end up not liking each other despite them all being good people. That's a damn shame.
Totally speculation on my part but I think on the boat regs, access is a big factor, not just for anglers but for enforcement too. In the message above, it's pitched as a "one-year study" so I'm hoping they are approaching this with a mindset of gathering lots of data to inform future policy decisions. How they will do that with only one year of data instead of establishing a baseline and measuring change over time, you got me... Enforcing the regs is much harder on the 'Duc and Calawah due to the terrain as you mentioned except for some of the SF.
Access is also why I'm not sure limiting boat fishing on the Hoh works as intended and doesn't have unintended consequences. On the Hoh, in the lower section it creates a gauntlet of fishermen that will be hard for any fish to get past unless they push through that section at night. Some of those areas end up being natural fish traps at lower flows and/or are places where the fish like to hang out or spawn. Does the lack of boat fishing offset the concentration of anglers in those spots creating fewer impacts? Who knows? That's why I wish they would pick a plan, keep at it for at least 3 years and measure the shit out of it.
I'd say limiting boat fishing on the Sol Duc definitely has a reduction in impacts as it's so hard to fish from the bank, people just don't do it and there isn't enough access to create the fisherman-weirs you can see on the Hoh. The drop in the number of boats passing my house last year (downstream of the hatchery) was huge. Which is why I don't understand why they opened up the hatchery to Maxfield section this year given the 'Duc is a genebank river with no hatchery fish. Like I opened, I have a hardtime making sense of it.
