On fuel: Cap it tall ism
We pay the price of human ingenuine ity
We pay the price of human ingenuine ity
With Our Already High Fuel Prices This Is Really Going To Hit The Pocketbook
- Thread starter Old406Kid
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Yes, please draw me a map and explain the economics of how the people who pass their costs along to consumers are the ones getting crushed. Also, please define "crushed." Keep in mind that the consumers aren't "crushed" at the moment.
A
Anonymous member 148
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@Dustin Chromers actually works for the world economic forum
SurfnFish
Legend
and probably still living in Mom's basement..who else would have the time?
As it is, these days facts are as fungible as ....opinions
kerrys
Ignored Member
I live in logging country also. I did some of my weekly shopping this morning. That usually involves visiting multiple stores so I can limit my trips to town to save on fuel. My 2007 Ford pickup with one of iveofione’s bulchfire v8 in it doesn’t get great gas mileage. I seen a number of loaded logging trucks and other big rigs running on Highway 9 and Highway 20 which I drive on to get to town. I know this is anecdotal but none of them looked crushed and traffic seems just as heavy as it ever was since covid restrictions are no more.
Although a trucking company may be able to pass the cost on to consumers, that does not necessarily translate into the the drivers seeing an increase in take home pay. Particularly if there is is a hungrier, leaner trucking company competing for same bids. Plus lumbar prices, milling costs, specialized vehicle maintenance/availability, fuel prices and unfinished contract costs/income may not move in parallel. Lumbar, fuel and labor prices have been particularly volatile for the past two years. If you are a manager of a company with steady demands, volatile pricing may mean you sit on capital and wait it out. But if you are the guy driving truck, or working the mill, or running the tree-felling machines the cost of living pretty much never gets cheaper.
Who among us does not look over their shoulder wondering where the grass is greener?
Coach Potter
Life of the Party
Does a truck with a healthy profit margin have a different "look" to it than one with a meager profit margin?
I had to buy tires this morning and was charged an additional $150 freight fee...it didn't kill me, but those types of things can become the norm in multiple purchases and before you know it you've died the death of a thousand cuts.
Flymph
Life of the Party
Let's set the record straight. You think you are radicalized, try being a "Green" and living in Red Neck Valley. Seriously, you don't have a clue what its like! And, by the way, don't associate us with Starbucks (Amazon Forest rapers) and Tesla (Mr. mistreatment of employees).
It's clear to me that you will cast your ballot in favor of those who have sliced our environment to pieces in the past and promise to do so again. These are the same people who have vowed to do away with Social Security and Medicare If you think gas prices and inflation are hurting people (and I agree that they are) wait till you see folks our age without Social Security and Medicare trying to eek out and existence!
Try listening to what @kerrys is saying because he is spot on!
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It seems that every time I go to the store the prices have climbed higher. I was going to pick up a Bakers dozen box of donuts. But it used to cost about $3.75, the new price was almost 5 bucks. I didn't buy them this time. It's true we old people are getting a raise next year, but that don't help now. I can say that the prices are going out of sight. I can still buy steak but not the "T" bone one I like to eat.
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charles sullivan
Life of the Party
That sounds very hard. I'm sure that you are doing your best. Parenting is a very difficult job. Sometimes it feels like playing whack a mole.
The question was how these drivers in particular are being crushed when the rest of us are not. If the lumber companies are paying for the fuel, how would fuel prices negatively impact drivers? If drivers are working freelance, they would certainly incorporate fuel prices into their quotes. Walmart is hiring truck drivers for over $90,000/year, and you don't have to own your own truck, pay for maintenance, or pay for fuel. If truckers working for lumber companies were getting hosed so badly, a significant portion would certainly take Walmart up on their offer. Then the lumber companies would be forced to pay better so they can still exist.
Regarding lumber prices, they are volatile, but the lowest they have dropped since 2020 is still higher than the average price it was between 1990 and 2020. https://www.macrotrends.net/2637/lumber-prices-historical-chart-data
I actually really like this idea. Talk about shaking shit up.
The great reset, the chromers way.
An on/off switch about 2.25”x 1”x1” for my 35 year old Makita table saw Is a discontinued and obsolete part so are the non OEM replacements. I found one for $67. When stuff has a limited supply this is what happens. I expect fuel to skyrocket in price continually.
kerrys
Ignored Member
I don’t know if it does or not. Can you tell by looking? Something tells me you can’t. So what is your point? My point is fallers are still dropping trees and trucks are still hauling them.Does a truck with a healthy profit margin have a different "look" to it than one with a meager profit margin?
I had to buy tires this morning and was charged an additional $150 freight fee...it didn't kill me, but those types of things can become the norm in multiple purchases and before you know it you've died the death of a thousand cuts.
I’m old enough to have lived through several recessions. Everyone bitched about something yet here we are. I don’t drink fancy expresso drinks because I think it is ridiculous to pay $5.00 or more for a cup of coffee yet there are still hundreds of expresso stands lining the highways. If it was so bad that everyone is losing money those expresso stands wouldn’t be there.
Dustin Chromers
Life of the Party
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So we should all work for Amazon and Wal Mart? Do you like small businesses? Current inflation and fuel conditions and now increased taxes on said fuel lead to them going extinct. I don't like Wal Mart anymore than BassPro. I and I believe we always champion small fly shops as the bastion of what makes things well and good in our sport. We lament their shuttering here and elsewhere. If you want cooperate America dot com and Cabela's as your only choice then we are on the right path. As if COVID was not a consolidation of wealth to the biggest cooperations, many mail order, at the expense of small businesses, brick and mortar, on its own we are now going to jack up taxes on fuel with no real plan that actually address the problem the tax is supposed to be for. I'm sorry if I don't see it.
Also lumber is up, logs are down to pre COVID prices, basically. Timber companies transport logs. Lumber companies transport finished goods through employees and contractors.They are getting a heck of a deal on the raw material all things considered currently. This is causing export log markets to be more attractive to timber owners. I think exporting a raw log is a travesty but that's just me and small mill communities talking. You know the people who don't want to work for the Wal Marts of the world. Hell I won't even enter a Wal Mart for any reason. Washington state got one thing right. That is the fact you cannot export raw logs from public land. Grown here, cut here, milled here is a recipe for strong local communities. Shipped overseas is a recipe for shuttered mills, loss of jobs and the like.
Bottom line is fuel and food prices drive quality of life for all of us if you realize it or not. These are the two mechanisms economically of greatest consequence to any human living in this country and abroad. Those rise and prices of everything rise. You know, inflation. Print more money on top of that and you have a rough situation for many, middle and lower class folks bearing the majority of that hardship. These are the folks that cannot and don't work from home. These are rural people who must commute to work. It's often hard for them to ask for more money in an area that isn't brim full of jobs for the skills they have. These are not bad people. These are not stupid people. These are simply people who are blue collar working folks. They have limited options and fuel is not a luxury anymore than food is. If they are union they strike. That is precisely what is happening at Weyerhaeuser currently. Mill and tree farm workers are on strike in week seven I believe. We also just avoided a rail strike nationally and longshore unions would likely follow suit The balance and natural economic order is disturbed and labor relations are tense. The whole house of cards economically is held up in my opinion but three pillars, inflation, the cost of food, and the cost of fuel. I'm quite certain a fuel tax for climate without a concrete plan of what it will actually do feels out of touch to many who are just trying to get by and do their thing.
Hopefully this gives you an idea of my perspective and a bit of a map. I apologize if you found the map comment insulting. Not my intent but perhaps not the best verbage and if I'm being honest a little curt. Sorry about that.
So we should all work for Amazon and Wal Mart? Do you like small businesses? Current inflation and fuel conditions and now increased taxes on said fuel lead to them going extinct. I don't like Wal Mart anymore than BassPro. I and I believe we always champion small fly shops as the bastion of what makes things well and good in our sport. We lament their shuttering here and elsewhere. If you want cooperate America dot com and Cabela's as your only choice then we are on the right path. As if COVID was not a consolidation of wealth to the biggest cooperations, many mail order, at the expense of small businesses, brick and mortar, on its own we are now going to jack up taxes on fuel with no real plan that actually address the problem the tax is supposed to be for. I'm sorry if I don't see it.
Also lumber is up, logs are down to pre COVID prices, basically. Timber companies transport logs. Lumber companies transport finished goods through employees and contractors.They are getting a heck of a deal on the raw material all things considered currently. This is causing export log markets to be more attractive to timber owners. I think exporting a raw log is a travesty but that's just me and small mill communities talking. You know the people who don't want to work for the Wal Marts of the world. Hell I won't even enter a Wal Mart for any reason. Washington state got one thing right. That is the fact you cannot export raw logs from public land. Grown here, cut here, milled here is a recipe for strong local communities. Shipped overseas is a recipe for shuttered mills, loss of jobs and the like.
Bottom line is fuel and food prices drive quality of life for all of us if you realize it or not. These are the two mechanisms economically of greatest consequence to any human living in this country and abroad. Those rise and prices of everything rise. You know, inflation. Print more money on top of that and you have a rough situation for many, middle and lower class folks bearing the majority of that hardship. These are the folks that cannot and don't work from home. These are rural people who must commute to work. It's often hard for them to ask for more money in an area that isn't brim full of jobs for the skills they have. These are not bad people. These are not stupid people. These are simply people who are blue collar working folks. They have limited options and fuel is not a luxury anymore than food is. If they are union they strike. That is precisely what is happening at Weyerhaeuser currently. Mill and tree farm workers are on strike in week seven I believe. We also just avoided a rail strike nationally and longshore unions would likely follow suit The balance and natural economic order is disturbed and labor relations are tense. The whole house of cards economically is held up in my opinion but three pillars, inflation, the cost of food, and the cost of fuel. I'm quite certain a fuel tax for climate without a concrete plan of what it will actually do feels out of touch to many who are just trying to get by and do their thing.
Hopefully this gives you an idea of my perspective and a bit of a map. I apologize if you found the map comment insulting. Not my intent but perhaps not the best verbage and if I'm being honest a little curt. Sorry about that.
Peyton00
Life of the Party
If gas/diesel is too expensive, i don't see it.
Everyday on my long drive home, i see guys(mostly single drivers) in their big trucks cruising the highways, which i find ridiculous.
They can't be hurting for gas money....they are still on the road.
Maybe these guys also get their coffee at those fancy stands kerry is talking about.
Everyday on my long drive home, i see guys(mostly single drivers) in their big trucks cruising the highways, which i find ridiculous.
They can't be hurting for gas money....they are still on the road.
Maybe these guys also get their coffee at those fancy stands kerry is talking about.
“Elasticity of Demand “… Econ 101
I actually agree with a lot of the things you said. I don't want everyone working for big companies, and I am a former small business owner (I owned a fly shop on the lower Deschutes). The part I'm not hearing is how log truck drivers are getting crushed. All the comments I've read that have tried to explain it so far have explained that increased cost of living hurts - but that hurts everyone on a fixed income.
Dustin Chromers
Life of the Party
Drivers of log trucks cannot just raise prices immediately to deal with fuel volatility in many cases though fuel surcharges are becoming the norm. Remember they drive the raw product which is at standard prices basically. At some point there is breakdown. Yes market correction is temporary hardship in many cases. Sometimes it's not and brand X may enjoy a monopoly of sorts for a time. If they are able to respond with better rates for their services you and I pay the up charge eventually as the consumer. Yes that's down chain a ways but it ultimately lands with the consumer. Furthermore log truck drivers are consumers as well. So we all get crushed or squeezed is perhaps a better term in the end and the log truck driver in many cases is squeezed on both ends if he or she cannot raise rates in response effectively. Remember there is always competition and someone willing to take less margin or even a loss in some cases to squeeze out competition to enjoy that possible future mini monopoly or better described as a drier service pool.
Side bar. Very few folks I've talked to are aware gas tax is going up. Many even voted for the legislation to do so. I found that interesting given their occupations and voting practices.
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