NFR "The Hypocrite" TGR film about advocacy/fossil fuels/Outdoor State

[Buzzy]

One of the things that this piece doesn't address is the resource suck that is overpopulation. I don't have kids but I'd be lying if I didn't worry about my friends kids.

Keeping it nice here @Josh -

It seems like the underlined portion of your post is one of those subjects that's taboo. Sadly, because I comepletely agree that the earth is overpopulated. I don't have an answer for this condundrum.

My wife and I just spent a bit over two months in Los Angeles (South Bay area); heading home, we got on 405 from Torrance. I think 405 is six lanes each way with the "carpool" lane on the far left. Five lanes were bumper to bumper in near gridlock. It took me five minutes to work my way over to the carpool lane.

We just don't get it; one way to perhaps slowdown consumption of petroleum might be mass transit. That's just too hard. And nobody wants to ride a bus or a train to and from work.

 

[Zak]

Keeping it nice here @Josh -

It seems like the underlined portion of your post is one of those subjects that's taboo. Sadly, because I comepletely agree that the earth is overpopulated. I don't have an answer for this condundrum.

My wife and I just spent a bit over two months in Los Angeles (South Bay area); heading home, we got on 405 from Torrance. I think 405 is six lanes each way with the "carpool" lane on the far left. Five lanes were bumper to bumper in near gridlock. It took me five minutes to work my way over to the carpool lane.

We just don't get it; one way to perhaps slowdown consumption of petroleum might be mass transit. That's just too hard. And nobody wants to ride a bus or a train to and from work.

I would totally take public transportation to and from work, but no easy, fast route exists. I think that is a good example of systemic change vs individual actions. Our individual choices are limited by the system we live in. Systemic change (like effective public transportation) would allow me to lower my own carbon footprint without great sacrifice.

 

[adamcu280]

Keeping it nice here @Josh -

It seems like the underlined portion of your post is one of those subjects that's taboo. Sadly, because I comepletely agree that the earth is overpopulated. I don't have an answer for this condundrum.

My wife and I just spent a bit over two months in Los Angeles (South Bay area); heading home, we got on 405 from Torrance. I think 405 is six lanes each way with the "carpool" lane on the far left. Five lanes were bumper to bumper in near gridlock. It took me five minutes to work my way over to the carpool lane.

We just don't get it; one way to perhaps slowdown consumption of petroleum might be mass transit. That's just too hard. And nobody wants to ride a bus or a train to and from work.

Hmm. I didn't know that subject was taboo. Seems like many of the threads I read here, especially in regards to fishing rivers and the state of the fisheries, have many references to overcrowding and dwindling resources. It's not a secret that there are far more of us nowadays than there were at any point previously, and all those people are going to take up resources.

With regards to mass transit: it's laughable how far behind the US is compared to other countries/continents with public transport. Japan and much of continental Europe have it pretty well dialed. I would absolutely love having a high speed train option from San Diego to Vancouver. Or even Portland to Vancouver.

I try to carpool or take public transport as often as I can. Individual change while waiting/hoping/voting for systemic change to make it easier in the future.

 

[Roper]

No more windmills is rural areas for urban power generation is a systematic change I'd like to see.. windmills are ugly and destructive.

They’re proposing 146,000 acres in Idaho for a wind farm, that’s public land…

 

[Roper]

Keeping it nice here @Josh -

It seems like the underlined portion of your post is one of those subjects that's taboo. Sadly, because I comepletely agree that the earth is overpopulated. I don't have an answer for this condundrum.

My wife and I just spent a bit over two months in Los Angeles (South Bay area); heading home, we got on 405 from Torrance. I think 405 is six lanes each way with the "carpool" lane on the far left. Five lanes were bumper to bumper in near gridlock. It took me five minutes to work my way over to the carpool lane.

We just don't get it; one way to perhaps slowdown consumption of petroleum might be mass transit. That's just too hard. And nobody wants to ride a bus or a train to and from work.

But Seattle keeps building light rail..

 

[Pink Nighty]

But Seattle keeps building light rail..

You know I said a lot about how much I hated light rail and how pointless it was... until I used it a couple months ago. Given the choice, I'll never drive in that cesspool again.

 

[wmelton]

But Seattle keeps building light rail..

What buzzy describes is an excellent argument for a light rail....

 

[Stonedfish]

If we are talking about Sound Transit light rail (ST3), that was approved based on a three county vote. King, Snohomish and Pierce.
King and Snohomish approved it, Pierce rejected it. It’s ok though, blame it all on the cesspool Seattle voters.
SF

 

[Peyton00]

They’re proposing 146,000 acres in Idaho for a wind farm, that’s public land…

Make Idaho great again.

 

[Zak]

It seems like in about 3 years there will be a new Orange bus line with a stop near my house in Mill Creek that would take me to Northgate, where I could get the light rail to Seattle. Good as far as it goes, but then I'd have to get from downtown to Fremont, where my office is. It's the "last mile" problem.

When we lived in Mukilteo and our office was downtown, I took the Sounder to work and back regularly and it was easy and stress free. But my best commute solution right now is driving in. Thankfully, I'm often able to work from home.

 

[Mossback]

Lol
Overpopulation ?
Really ?
This has been said since the days of Sumer, and well...there's never been any substantive change in the trends, save for the plague years perhaps...all the geat thinkers of the day, all portending catastrophic scenarios due to overpopulation...that never happened.

Needless to say, the same 'overpopulation' argument was always made by the most affluent societies historically speaking, those societies who fancy themselves 'learned', and whose consumption of resources and high rates of waste dwarfed the majority of the contemporaneous societies at any given time... and of course they viewed any competition for 'their' resources as an issue to be resolved in their favor...as quickly as possible so the lifestyle of the most affluent was not disrupted in any measurable long term manner.


How about overconsumption...and simply that just maybe, just perhaps, the whole concept of finding ways to maintain a highly consumptive lifestyle with perhaps a few pathetic and minor tweaks to make yourself feel good about things while heading out to your next adventure for heli skiing or whatever makes some kind of actual real difference, and that it might be the wrong approach to addressing these perceived problems.
Fact is, this country consumes orders of magnitude more of everything than most, wastes orders of magnitude than most, and this 'discussion' is more about maintaining that level of consumption while feeling good about doing so, than it is about addressing resources, population or anything else.

Overpopulation....

The only actual truly taboo subject here is consumption and waste...never hear that discussed...ever.

 

[charles sullivan]

You know I said a lot about how much I hated light rail and how pointless it was... until I used it a couple months ago. Given the choice, I'll never drive in that cesspool again.

I love using that light rail. It's pretty great.

 

[charles sullivan]

Keeping it nice here @Josh -

It seems like the underlined portion of your post is one of those subjects that's taboo. Sadly, because I comepletely agree that the earth is overpopulated. I don't have an answer for this condundrum.

My wife and I just spent a bit over two months in Los Angeles (South Bay area); heading home, we got on 405 from Torrance. I think 405 is six lanes each way with the "carpool" lane on the far left. Five lanes were bumper to bumper in near gridlock. It took me five minutes to work my way over to the carpool lane.

We just don't get it; one way to perhaps slowdown consumption of petroleum might be mass transit. That's just too hard. And nobody wants to ride a bus or a train to and from work.

I would love to right a light rail to and from work if I had a commute of any amount.

I work quite close to where I live. It has always been a goal to live and work close together. For the most part I have been able to succeed at it.

 

[wmelton]

Lol
Overpopulation ?
Really ?
This has been said since the days of Sumer, and well...there's never been any substantive change in the trends, save for the plague years perhaps...all the geat thinkers of the day, all portending catastrophic scenarios due to overpopulation...that never happened.

Needless to say, the same 'overpopulation' argument was always made by the most affluent societies historically speaking, those societies who fancy themselves 'learned', and whose consumption of resources and high rates of waste dwarfed the majority of the contemporaneous societies at any given time... and of course they viewed any competition for 'their' resources as an issue to be resolved in their favor...as quickly as possible so the lifestyle of the most affluent was not disrupted in any measurable long term manner.


How about overconsumption...and simply that just maybe, just perhaps, the whole concept of finding ways to maintain a highly consumptive lifestyle with perhaps a few pathetic and minor tweaks to make yourself feel good about things while heading out to your next adventure for heli skiing or whatever makes some kind of actual real difference, and that it might be the wrong approach to addressing these perceived problems.
Fact is, this country consumes orders of magnitude more of everything than most, wastes orders of magnitude than most, and this 'discussion' is more about maintaining that level of consumption while feeling good about doing so, than it is about addressing resources, population or anything else.

Overpopulation....

The only actual truly taboo subject here is consumption and waste...never hear that discussed...ever.

Yeah there is a lot of truth to what you are saying. Overpopulation is certainly not the root of our problems.

 

[Hoofer]

Make Idaho great again.

I can think of a few places in Idaho that are perhaps a little bit greater than the stuff around the proposed wind project. (No offense to sage grouse or the memory of Japanese internment.)

 

[adamcu280]

Lol
Overpopulation ?
Really ?
This has been said since the days of Sumer, and well...there's never been any substantive change in the trends, save for the plague years perhaps...all the geat thinkers of the day, all portending catastrophic scenarios due to overpopulation...that never happened.

Needless to say, the same 'overpopulation' argument was always made by the most affluent societies historically speaking, those societies who fancy themselves 'learned', and whose consumption of resources and high rates of waste dwarfed the majority of the contemporaneous societies at any given time... and of course they viewed any competition for 'their' resources as an issue to be resolved in their favor...as quickly as possible so the lifestyle of the most affluent was not disrupted in any measurable long term manner.


How about overconsumption...and simply that just maybe, just perhaps, the whole concept of finding ways to maintain a highly consumptive lifestyle with perhaps a few pathetic and minor tweaks to make yourself feel good about things while heading out to your next adventure for heli skiing or whatever makes some kind of actual real difference, and that it might be the wrong approach to addressing these perceived problems.
Fact is, this country consumes orders of magnitude more of everything than most, wastes orders of magnitude than most, and this 'discussion' is more about maintaining that level of consumption while feeling good about doing so, than it is about addressing resources, population or anything else.

Overpopulation....

The only actual truly taboo subject here is consumption and waste...never hear that discussed...ever.

Pretty sure I've mentioned consumption and waste here before. Maybe it was on the old site. I've definitely seen it discussed. It's a big part of the video I posted.

In any event, overpopulation and resource use go hand in hand with overconsumption and waste, especially in modernized, industrial societies.

 

[Dustin Chromers]

I would totally take public transportation to and from work, but no easy, fast route exists. I think that is a good example of systemic change vs individual actions. Our individual choices are limited by the system we live in. Systemic change (like effective public transportation) would allow me to lower my own carbon footprint without great sacrifice.

I like this line of thinking because it's actually solution oriented. If you build a nice public transport without forcing those who don't use it from outside it's use area to pay for it and it's a nice place to hang out I'm in. Portland has a pretty darn good system but sadly it's essentially cold storage for drug addicts and not all that safe feeling. Conversely taking the train from Bellingham to Portland is way nicer than driving. Plus you can drink, have conversations with people, read a book, or see scenery in the state you wouldn't otherwise see. Effective usable public transport will need to come online in Seattle as it's not livable as a driver currently. Build something cool and people will see the way.

 

[Dustin Chromers]

You know I said a lot about how much I hated light rail and how pointless it was... until I used it a couple months ago. Given the choice, I'll never drive in that cesspool again.

Behold, a converted soul. Hallelujah!

 

[Salmo_g]

It also has to be voluntary. Without fees and taxes that punish people for not changing. Most of the worst things done in human history were structural and systematic.

I fully advocate the use of fossil fuels because without them billions of people die.

I strongly suspect that seeking this change via only voluntary action will be about as successful as trying to run a country having only voluntary taxes. The free rider concept is too deeply embedded in the human psyche for this to work.

 

[SurfnFish]

'hyprocrite' well tags the uber athletes who have spent their life burning up dinosaur exhaust in their quest for bigger, higher, steeper fun, and have now shifted their business model to 'economically sustainable' because they are now enlightened, not to mention it sells.
Jeremy Jones, the featured snowboarder, has made a living for decades performing in self produced extreme snowboard videos, much of it made flying with his film crew to Alaska to be dropped by helo onto ultra high ridge tops for filmed rides down. What's the carbon footprint on those trips?
The same JJ who during summer would drive down from Tahoe with his posse in an exhaust smoking old yellow school bus turned hippie RV and park it at our local beach for a week at a time, surfing days and burning wood fires at night on the beach.
8 billion folks on a shrinking rock...we are locked irrevocably into our environmental future