Show off your favorite abandoned-garbage-riverside-homeless-camps of 2022!

[Otter]

I haven't read much of this so forgive me if I repeat anything.

I was watching Bill Mayer one night last year and this subject was brought up. His guest was an Englishman. He was appalled at the amount of homelessness here, stating that it was barbaric our government would allow such deplorable conditions to exist within its citizenry. I agree. Are we so destitute in money and compassion we allow our citizens to live like animals? Are we a country in decline or is this just normal for the USA...

Not just in the USA. We have the same issues here in Canada, with the same public divide between those who suggest "the solution" is to force the homeless into prisons or mental institutions (as if there is capacity in either), and those who suggest a harm reduction approach (such as providing the homeless with housing, decriminalized access to safer drugs, detox, and medical help).

If this problem wasn't so massive and complex, I think it would have been solved some time ago. And because it's a brand new type of crisis, we are having to figure out novel solutions that, I think, will take a long time to have effect, if ever. And I think much more effort needs to be made to help the women who are on the streets, because they are suffering more (theft, beatings and rapes) than men. And there are a lot less shelters for women, at least here in B.C.)

All I know is that NO person, suffering from homelessness, trauma, addiction, and/or mental illness, ever said to themselves when they were little kids, "When I grow up, I want to be poor, traumatized, beaten, raped, addicted, mentally ill, hungry, and without a home." And I also have a hard time understanding why some people say that this outcome is a result of personal choice. From what I've read and heard, most, if not all, people in this situation have a background of trauma.

 

[Stonedfish]

I heard the stories from my dad too, he was an orphan selling newspapers on the street at 6 years old.
Those CCC type programs built some of the trails I hike out here on the OP, and I know some of the children (now old men) of the guys who built them.
I think about those trail builders, and the funding that got them built...and am grateful for the foresight involved.

It always brings a smile to my face when I see plaques or markers noting CCC or WPA projects.
We have some very nice things to be thankful for due to the hard work of those folks.
SF

 

[Capt Insano Emeritis]

How is it the so called homeless acquire so much shit? If they have no jobs or income where do all the tarps, tents, bicycles, etc. come from?

They get all that shit from what we get tired of and “recycle”

 

[JayB]

Agreed, and it's awesome to hear your guys' recovery stories.

The hardest question, for me at least, is what do we do about those who are beyond help, permanently damaged, and permanently a drain on society? Be it for safety for others, trashing our neighborhoods, financial burdens, vandalism, theft, etc etc. Because there are far too many that are there, and we have no answer for what to do about them.

Until these extremely difficult questions get answered, I don't know we will see much change. Because the only available solutions are either status quo, or take steps that society isn't going to even want to talk about.

(hopefully I don't send this thread down the shitter here. It's stayed amazingly civil and we're so grateful we can have these difficult discussions here)

One insight that I think older generations had that we've lost sight of is that no human being should be either above or below the law. Those are high minded ideals that are notoriously tough to realize in practice, but part of the reason that we have the law is both to protect people from others and their own destructive impulses when they manifest in ways that impose on someone else's rights, freedoms, or safety.

To take but one example, no one is less appreciative of the mechanisms that society uses to discourage and constrain reckless/dangerous driving than teenage boys, but no one benefits from them more. I worry that in the name of compassion we've created an entire class of people that we've effectively declared beneath the law, and have deprived them of the small modicum of dignity that comes with being deemed responsible and accountable for ones' actions, and being both capable and worthy of redemption.

 

[Josh]

I'd really like to commend everyone on how this thread has stayed civil. Homelessness is a big complicated problem that affects many people directly and indirectly, and it's obvious that there are many differing opinions on causes and solutions among our group.

And yet nobody has been a dick. Folks have shared a lot of interesting thoughts and experiences and everyone has been respectful about it even when they don't agree.

This is the best of us here on PNWFF (non-fishing related, anyway) and a big part of why Billy, Evan, and I take on the work to build and keep this place running.

Thank you all.

 

[SteelHeadDave]

I feel for the dogs these guys drag around with them on their journey to nowhere.

I feel for all the dogs that are trapped alone in houses or chained up all day that get little to no attention except for when it’s convenient for the owner. Every person that is capable of having a loving relationship with a dog or pet should be able to. Homeless folks, disabled people, mentally challenged people, privileged fly fishing bros. Dogs can be great healers and the most loyal companions. If I were homeless and most likely struggling with deep depression I would be extremely grateful to have a dog by my side. That relationship might not look pretty to the common person but it’s the bond that counts the most. If homeless dogs could talk I’m sure they would tell you that living the homeless life with a dedicated and loving human is better than some of the worse alternatives (animal shelter/euthanasia, living mostly alone and going mad with little to no stimulation because the owner is too busy to give it attention etc.)

 

[Billy]

One thing that should be mentioned with the aspect of more institutions is that our current medical systems seems to be slowly collapsing.

How would you even find medical staff to work in these institutions when hospitals in this state for example can hardly staff for the floor and are hemorrhaging billions attempting to?

 

[Coach Potter]

I feel for all the dogs that are trapped alone in houses or chained up all day that get little to no attention except for when it’s convenient for the owner. Every person that is capable of having a loving relationship with a dog or pet should be able to. Homeless folks, disabled people, mentally challenged people, privileged fly fishing bros. Dogs can be great healers and the most loyal companions. If I were homeless and most likely struggling with deep depression I would be extremely grateful to have a dog by my side. That relationship might not look pretty to the common person but it’s the bond that counts the most. If homeless dogs could talk I’m sure they would tell you that living the homeless life with a dedicated and loving human is better than some of the worse alternatives (animal shelter/euthanasia, living mostly alone and going mad with little to no stimulation because the owner is too busy to give it attention etc.)

A dog has no idea if he’s homeless...food water and attention is about all they need.

 

[Stonedfish]

One thing that should be mentioned with the aspect of more institutions is that our current medical systems seems to be slowly collapsing.

How would you even find medical staff to work in these institutions when hospitals in this state for example can hardly staff for the floor and are hemorrhaging billions attempting to?

Very true.
Here is kind of a snapshot of where the state is and the lack of mental health treatment available.
SF

King County tells judge WA should pay fines for being 'forced' to house mentally ill inmates in jail

The county urged a judge to allow them to argue for monetary sanctions against DSHS for not moving mentally ill inmates from jail to the hospital.

www.king5.com

 

[Long_Rod_Silvers]

I admire the river tenters. They could choose the easy route and post up on a sidewalk In an urban spot. But no, they choose the road less traveled. They choose to be in the wild. To soak in the beauty of the natural world. Really, they are like a modern day Thoreau.

But yeah, clean yer shit up please.

 

[Yard Sale]

One thing that should be mentioned with the aspect of more institutions is that our current medical systems seems to be slowly collapsing.

How would you even find medical staff to work in these institutions when hospitals in this state for example can hardly staff for the floor and are hemorrhaging billions attempting to?

I won't get too specific in the spirit of staying non-political, but we could easily shift trillions of dollars from certain federal budget lines. Seems especially right after the last couple years of strain on your segment of the workforce.

 

[Yard Sale]

I admire the river tenters. They could choose the easy route and post up on a sidewalk In an urban spot. But no, they choose the road less traveled. They choose to be in the wild. To soak in the beauty of the natural world. Really, they are like a modern day Thoreau.

But yeah, clean yer shit up please.

Last river clean up I did we took a 5 gallon bucket of AA batteries from one site. It was well below the high water mark.

I think of this when people mention "enabling".

 

[Dustin Chromers]

.

I won't get too specific in the spirit of staying non-political, but we could easily shift trillions of dollars from certain federal budget lines. Seems especially right after the last couple years of strain on your segment of the workforce.

I believe Seattle spent 138 million in 2021 and it grew in numbers, scope, and intensity. How much money do you think will fix the problem?

I'm not asking to be combative. I too see lots of federal money squandered that could go to help citizens.

 

[charles sullivan]

When it comes to the homeless, it's fairly easy to write off the drug addicts and deliberate ne'er-do-wells. Not so easy with the mentally impaired. Like it or not, I think the laws need to be re-written that allows those people who mentally have no chance of taking care of themselves can be institutionalized and cared for by the state, with perhaps better oversight so as not to repeat the worst mistakes of the past.

Then there's that group that simply lack the money for housing. That should be solvable. People with little money used to live in sub-standard housing. In recent decades sub-standard housing gets demolished and the neighborhoods "gentrified" so that poor people cannot afford to live there. When I was a kid, I had a classmate whose family lived in a converted chicken coop. A neighbor kid and his family lived in two shacks on a piece of cheap property. I remember when his dad installed an indoor toilet and bathtub in one of them. Talk about a big deal and moving up in the world!

You can't build sub-standard housing today. Gov't won't allow it. Everything has to be up to current code, and not all codes are about safety. Cheap shelter for transitioning should be an option. Cheap shelter is a whole lot better than living under a bridge or in a car and can be safe and sanitary, which is basically what a person needs to sustain life. It won't win an award from Home Beautiful, but it can allow a person to recover from an economic disaster like bankruptcy from medical bills or the like.

I think the main thing is to avoid duplicating Seattle/King County. I read a couple years ago that Seattle spends about $130,000 a year per homeless person. That's well above the average income, even for high priced Seattle and King County. Yet it doesn't seem to reduce homelessness and instead looks to have made an industry out of it. Somebody younger and more ambitious than I should cobble together a plan and submit bids to counties to effectively handle homelessness in given counties, provided those counties enact laws to support it.

7,500 and no need for dangerous living.

 

[charles sullivan]

.

I believe Seattle spent 138 million in 2021 and it grew in numbers, scope, and intensity. How much money do you think will fix the problem?

I'm not asking to be combative. I too see lots of federal money squandered that could go to help citizens.

I have seen data to suggest 75 hundy cd for certain homeless people. Others may be more expensive.

 

[Yard Sale]

.

I believe Seattle spent 138 million in 2021 and it grew in numbers, scope, and intensity. How much money do you think will fix the problem?

I'm not asking to be combative. I too see lots of federal money squandered that could go to help citizens.

Fair point. 138 Million seems like a lot but it really isn't in todays economy. I still feel weird thinking in trillions rather than billions. Let alone millions.

I think it would be fairly easy for the feds to throw a trillion dollars at this if we wanted to. As has been mentioned several times here, very fairly, is how to spend it.

 

[Dustin Chromers]

I have seen data to suggest 75 hundy cd for certain homeless people. Others may be more expensive.

Fair point. 138 Million seems like a lot but it really isn't in todays economy. I still feel weird thinking in trillions rather than billions. Let alone millions.

I think it would be fairly easy for the feds to throw a trillion dollars at this if we wanted to. As has been mentioned several times here, very fairly, is how to spend it.

It seems if Seattle is spending that kind of coin and the problem is growing there's a problem with how it's being spent.

I feel like the three of us could take that cash and likely house the entire homeless population of Seattle and still have enough left over to grab dinner and drinks to congratulate ourselves and celebrate solving the homeless crisis.

And call me old fashioned but I think that is a monolithic amount of money. Especially to have no measurable desired results.

New edit.....More data and fun with numbers. If the figure Charles cited is correct and the estimate of 12,000 homeless in Seattle is accurate then we could house folks for 90 million. This is just going dollar at par with the Canadian dollar. So that leaves 48 million dollars to spare but in Seattle we spend more and still have 12,000 homeless. Something isn't adding up or they aren't as smart as the Canadians.

Again no political judgements or otherwise just crunching figures and thinking out loud tossing my idea hat into the ring. The only question is are we doing Italian then drinks or Mexican and drinks at the restaurant?

 

[Anonymous member 148]

I really don't understand the lack of health care workers, around here they are throwing money at people to work in the industry. A relative who works at a hospital told me they are giving nurses 300$ a day bonus pay along with OT, practicly free healthcare through your employer and other perks. I'm thinking maybe I should go back to school except I hate people and don't like touching them... The money is almost making it tempting. Why don't people want to work?

 

[Zak]

I really don't understand the lack of health care workers, around here they are throwing money at people to work in the industry. A relative who works at a hospital told me they are giving nurses 300$ a day bonus pay along with OT, practicly free healthcare through your employer and other perks. I'm thinking maybe I should go back to school except I hate people and don't like touching them... The money is almost making it tempting. Why don't people want to work?

My wife is a nurse at a big hospital. The hospital stopped paying bonuses for extra shifts late last summer. More than half of her paycheck goes to the health care premium for our family, it's hardly free. The hospital is dangerously understaffed. Its solution is to hire more travel nurses, who make about twice as much per hour as staff nurses (but no benefits).

Nursing is a tough job! Thank God people are willing to do it.

 

[charles sullivan]

It seems if Seattle is spending that kind of coin and the problem is growing there's a problem with how it's being spent.

I feel like the three of us could take that cash and likely house the entire homeless population of Seattle and still have enough left over to grab dinner and drinks to congratulate ourselves and celebrate solving the homeless crisis.

And call me old fashioned but I think that is a monolithic amount of money. Especially to have no measurable desired results.

I am sure the effect is not measurable. That does not mean that there is no effect.
One issue is that we don't do well keeping people out of the sidewalk tent. Hence, my hoping that people read about the study from Van.
Another issue is that at 130k the cost of what we are doing now is similar to the cost of incarceration. When you have to factor in the court costs who knows what the cost is. If you look at states who have laws that put the homeless in jail, they have an increased amount of jail residents roughly equal to our homeless population per capita. So, they choose to house them in jail.
It seems like those are the 2 ways we deal with bein homeless in the USA at this point. Neither seem ideal.
I don't mind institutionalizing certain portions of our homeless populations, be it in jail or another pseudo jail facility. The repeat offenders who threaten the small bodied humans that I love need to be dealt with in a way that limits their impact.
The single parents and the kids are the portion that I really think need to be treated with compassion and community. I grew up poor. I know others who were homeless as kids and many more that were oh so close to living in the tent.
I just think that an ounce of prevention is worth 130 million dollars of cure. It is so important to keep the transition from the car to the tent from happening and actually reversing it from car to heated space. It may actually just cost 75 hundy...canadian. What politician or group has the balls to figure out how to have that check signed? I suspect the ROI is as high as Lamar Odom at the Bunny Ranch.