Microgram=one millionth of a gram
Show off your favorite abandoned-garbage-riverside-homeless-camps of 2022!
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Coach Potter
Life of the Party
I listened to the whole thing. I would be curious to know, if 10 of us listened to that, the different perspectives from those that heard it.I heard this last spring and found it really insightful.
Interviews with people experiencing homelessness
On a chilly and rainy March day, a team of journalists went to Old Town and an area near Delta Park in North Portland to interview folks living in tents or shelters or cars to ask them what they need and what they want from the city.www.opb.org
I'll try that.. tried to save a .jpg and don't think I could. Will try in file manager though and see what happens..
I have not chimed in because really I only have an answer for me as well. This is probably stupid and I know better, but here goes. In 30 years I've seen most can't or won't make it. Sobriety, or jails, institutions or death are the only other options. There is no easy, straightforward, one size fits all solution. But enabling the current situation guarantees the later 3 outcomes, and really only the last one at this point. Like many caring family members, politicians/society seems to tolerate it and hope it clears itself up. No one gets clean alone, yet only the persons desire can get and keep them clean. A strong system of rehab, second and third phase housing to help the addicted learn how to live would be a good start. Probably could serve to help the incarcerated incorperate back into society as well. Some folks are seriously in need and need permanent mental help, like eastern or western used to do. The supervised house in Dayton for the moderately functionally mentally challenged does good stuff. More of that is needed. Some folk are just bad and need to be up on the hill in the pen, inside they have no desire but to get by at the expense of others. Some folks just get bad breaks, and need a way to get started. A program of help/homes that helps folks like these as well as battered women would be a natural These things cost money, and at one point these were moderately funded, but lack of success, in measurable metrics, is lacking. I've known a lot of good councilors get burned out on state paperwork and leave. Anyway, king county detox, harborview, and cedar hills treatment center got me back into the world. I got a free ride on the taxpayer. Hopefully, I'm doing enough to repay the kindness I once recieved.
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DoesItFloat
Life of the Party
A little easier for me to think in terms of 1000 micrograms = 1 milligram.
FinLuver
Native Oregonian…1846
Kicked the 80s’ habits to the curb in the 90s…by myself/no rehab/no friends…because in the end, there is only one person that can get you clean…you have got to want it and live a completely different lifestyle.
It’s about choices.
With Fentanyl in the picture these days…the choice is made easier.
Just say No and stay away from those people and situations where drug use is prevalent.
It’s about choices.
With Fentanyl in the picture these days…the choice is made easier.
Just say No and stay away from those people and situations where drug use is prevalent.
HauntedByWaters
Life of the Party
So no fishing near hatcheries?
kerrys
Ignored Member
Including my story we have three completely different paths to recovery. There is one thing these three stories have in common, the individual has to want to change. My experience with alcoholics/drug addicts says this one desire has to be present. Even with the admission of addiction and a willingness to change most will fail to recover.
Agreed, and it's awesome to hear your guys' recovery stories.
The hardest question, for me at least, is what do we do about those who are beyond help, permanently damaged, and permanently a drain on society? Be it for safety for others, trashing our neighborhoods, financial burdens, vandalism, theft, etc etc. Because there are far too many that are there, and we have no answer for what to do about them.
Until these extremely difficult questions get answered, I don't know we will see much change. Because the only available solutions are either status quo, or take steps that society isn't going to even want to talk about.
(hopefully I don't send this thread down the shitter here. It's stayed amazingly civil and we're so grateful we can have these difficult discussions here)
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Well. Not to mention sorting the "beyond help" and "help-able" is a thing in of itself.
Coming from a family of alcoholics and addicts, this a particularly complicated problem that I can't even sort internally.
Yeah, it's a slippery slope that I don't have an answer for either.
One of the people who raised me, my (now ex) step dad, is one such person now. Just far, far beyond help and fried beyond recognition. In and out of prison, and goes right back to burglarizing and being a menace to society the moment he gets out each time. Went from being one of my mentors for the outdoors growing up to being on America's Most Wanted (literally).
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charles sullivan
Life of the Party
Ain't that the truth. It seems as though the people that are beyond help, or seem to be are the ones that truly have the most impact on the rest of society.
I understand that there are many people who are homeless who aren't hopeless or beyond hope. There are many homeless kids. There is little to no way an infant or young child has caused their own homelessness. I work with someone who was homeless as child along with his mother. He is an excellent human and co-worker. His mother got them into a home and out of the car at some point. She just had a really hard time making a living for a period of time. I think we often miss these people and focus on the people in tents that smell like piss and yell at you when you cross the street. The homeless mom/ child in the case of my coworker had no alcohol or drug dependency issue.
That's why I think that the study that I linked earlier is so interesting. When you can weed out the portion of the homeless that can't be helped, it only takes $7,500.00 Canadian to keep them from living in crisis and making crisis type decisions. Are we just doing it wrong? Is it really a matter of keeping those that we can from being homeless? Man, if I knew 7,500 would keep turn around someone's life and keep them from becoming the homeless person in a tent, I'd write the damn check immediately.
The nearly completely homogenous group of adult men on this forum loves the tough love approach. I suspect that most of us feel like that's what would work for us. Is that the best approach for all of the homeless? How does society go about figuring out what approach is best and for who?
When is the individual freedom and liberty that we all so dearly love rightfully taken away from people? Personally, I love my liberty. I love my freedom. I make exactly 0 decisions in the course of a day thinking that making a different choice could effect either. I am not living in crisis mode though. I love the idea that your liberty to swing your hands ends at my face. Where does sleeping or shitting on a public space land in the spectrum of someone's liberty vs. impacting me? They aren't hitting me. They certainly are affecting me.
I doubt that the threat of taking freedom or liberty away would change much in the way of the behavior of the most visible and societally impactful homeless people. They aren't making decisions based on logic and reason. It may be necessary if there is no other way to limit individuals impact on society.
At the same time, I would love it if we had real discussions about how to keep people out of homelessness without the typical political tropes being used. If we did that as a society, we may even make changes that make the situation better. Maybe we are? I don't know.
Tough love. I think it's only going to happen under duress for most folks. People need to be taken off the streets, evaluated, housed, fed, cleaned up, counseled, job trained and integrated back into the society. A clean, safe, monitored environment will be required. Those that can't make use of the opportunity will probably end up in jails or prisons. That needs to be an option. Through time there have been those that don't conform. Leaving people on the streets affects the rest of society in a negative way. I mean what were really talking about are those who do not live, are not living, by the accepted rules of society, and either they need to be taught a new way to live in which they can be happy, or we need to remove they from society in order to protect it. Some long term mental health care is going to be required.
Evan, it shouldn't go down the shitter. We all need share our thoughts and be heard, and figure this out. Everyone is worthy of saving. Some need help, some don't want it. Unfortunately I don't know of a painless solution.
I’ll probably sound old here, but being the child of depression era parents I heard many stories about hardships.
My dad lived portions of his early life in a tent during the depression.
I'd like to see some depression era programs like the CCC or WPA revived to help get those that want help getting back on their feet while returning some good to the overall public for the money spent on the programs.
Cleaning up all the litter, graffiti and repairing parks infrastructure would be a good place to start while offering shelter, wages, three squares and counseling services for those willing to work and seek help for themselves.
SF
My dad lived portions of his early life in a tent during the depression.
I'd like to see some depression era programs like the CCC or WPA revived to help get those that want help getting back on their feet while returning some good to the overall public for the money spent on the programs.
Cleaning up all the litter, graffiti and repairing parks infrastructure would be a good place to start while offering shelter, wages, three squares and counseling services for those willing to work and seek help for themselves.
SF
Coach Potter
Life of the Party
I wouldn't know how to administer "tough love" to a person that I don't love. I'm the product of a "tough love" household. My kids were raised the same way. The kid's I coach will tell you that I'm a "tough love" coach. IMO, that works ONLY because the LOVE part is always there. I never had a doubt being loved as a kid. My kids don't doubt that either. The kid's I coach will tell you the same thing, but I have built relationships with all of those people, they all know where my heart is.
I have seen and continue to see people thrive in that environment, but I don't know that you can replicate that on a "social program" style scale. The "tough" part of tough love is easy, the love part is hard, and I don't think you can separate the two and also be effective.
trying to stay out of the politics on this, but this is where one's vote matters....especially at the local level.
When it comes to the homeless, it's fairly easy to write off the drug addicts and deliberate ne'er-do-wells. Not so easy with the mentally impaired. Like it or not, I think the laws need to be re-written that allows those people who mentally have no chance of taking care of themselves can be institutionalized and cared for by the state, with perhaps better oversight so as not to repeat the worst mistakes of the past.
Then there's that group that simply lack the money for housing. That should be solvable. People with little money used to live in sub-standard housing. In recent decades sub-standard housing gets demolished and the neighborhoods "gentrified" so that poor people cannot afford to live there. When I was a kid, I had a classmate whose family lived in a converted chicken coop. A neighbor kid and his family lived in two shacks on a piece of cheap property. I remember when his dad installed an indoor toilet and bathtub in one of them. Talk about a big deal and moving up in the world!
You can't build sub-standard housing today. Gov't won't allow it. Everything has to be up to current code, and not all codes are about safety. Cheap shelter for transitioning should be an option. Cheap shelter is a whole lot better than living under a bridge or in a car and can be safe and sanitary, which is basically what a person needs to sustain life. It won't win an award from Home Beautiful, but it can allow a person to recover from an economic disaster like bankruptcy from medical bills or the like.
I think the main thing is to avoid duplicating Seattle/King County. I read a couple years ago that Seattle spends about $130,000 a year per homeless person. That's well above the average income, even for high priced Seattle and King County. Yet it doesn't seem to reduce homelessness and instead looks to have made an industry out of it. Somebody younger and more ambitious than I should cobble together a plan and submit bids to counties to effectively handle homelessness in given counties, provided those counties enact laws to support it.
Then there's that group that simply lack the money for housing. That should be solvable. People with little money used to live in sub-standard housing. In recent decades sub-standard housing gets demolished and the neighborhoods "gentrified" so that poor people cannot afford to live there. When I was a kid, I had a classmate whose family lived in a converted chicken coop. A neighbor kid and his family lived in two shacks on a piece of cheap property. I remember when his dad installed an indoor toilet and bathtub in one of them. Talk about a big deal and moving up in the world!
You can't build sub-standard housing today. Gov't won't allow it. Everything has to be up to current code, and not all codes are about safety. Cheap shelter for transitioning should be an option. Cheap shelter is a whole lot better than living under a bridge or in a car and can be safe and sanitary, which is basically what a person needs to sustain life. It won't win an award from Home Beautiful, but it can allow a person to recover from an economic disaster like bankruptcy from medical bills or the like.
I think the main thing is to avoid duplicating Seattle/King County. I read a couple years ago that Seattle spends about $130,000 a year per homeless person. That's well above the average income, even for high priced Seattle and King County. Yet it doesn't seem to reduce homelessness and instead looks to have made an industry out of it. Somebody younger and more ambitious than I should cobble together a plan and submit bids to counties to effectively handle homelessness in given counties, provided those counties enact laws to support it.
I heard the stories from my dad too, he was an orphan selling newspapers on the street at 6 years old.
Those CCC type programs built some of the trails I hike out here on the OP, and I know some of the children (now old men) of the guys who built them.
I think about those trail builders, and the funding that got them built...and am grateful for the foresight involved.
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