Prowlers

[Dustin Chromers]

I'm not going to single anyone out. However, some folks here should watch some videos, from the channel below, about homeless people and drug addicts. Nearly all of them suffered abuse as children. Anyone with any degree of compassion should find their stories heart breaking. They are broken people and their behavior shouldn't surprise anyone, when you hear what they have been through. It's arrogant for anyone to think that they would be any different, if they were subjected to the same conditions.

Crime can't be tolerated, regardless of the cause. However, some people on this forum really need a dose of humility and look deeper than their own inconvenience. Sitting on high horses never solves anything.

https://youtube.com/c/SoftWhiteUnderbelly

Some people like to make their problems and somebody else's problems an obligation to others. I don't agree with that at all. If you steal to feed addiction stemming from abuse or whatever bullshit excuse you're still a thief. Thieves deserve zero quarter, period. You enable thieves by not dealing with them. We've built a habitat where they thrive. We have zoo keepers that enable them with their decade long evergreen college degrees who have built an industry ranching these folks. Take a walk through any camp in my town and it's young people of working age stripping cars and bikes. These are people who have a choice and the capacity to do something else. They simply choose not to because we've as a society tolerated their bullshit and made excuses for them. Some of the shittiest kids I knew had parents always defending them for their crap. Those guys now inhabit these camps. I don't like them. I don't have to like them. I don't like them because they are thieving shit bags. Good people should not have the burden or responsibility to deal with thieves regardless if they are the product of some poor parenting way back when. All this enabling shit is building a shrine to weakness. And it in end it helps enable the destruction of the vary species of human they say they are "helping".

 

[BriGuy]

I'm not going to single anyone out. However, some folks here should watch some videos, from the channel below, about homeless people and drug addicts. Nearly all of them suffered abuse as children. Anyone with any degree of compassion should find their stories heart breaking. They are broken people and their behavior shouldn't surprise anyone, when you hear what they have been through. It's arrogant for anyone to think that they would be any different, if they were subjected to the same conditions.

Crime can't be tolerated, regardless of the cause. However, some people on this forum really need a dose of humility and look deeper than their own inconvenience. Sitting on high horses never solves anything.

https://youtube.com/c/SoftWhiteUnderbelly

I watched the intro, and the narrator makes some very good points -- especially that the problem will be getting worse as more people suffer these abuses. How can it not? So, as I mentioned, there needs to be some form of intervention to reach and help these people and break that cycle -- hopefully before the criminal justice system gets involved.

As you said, crime cannot be tolerated. The offenders should be punished and, if needed, given treatment options.

Maybe I am a bit insensitive since I did not come from such a background. Not having close family members in these situations may make it easier to see past the problem. On the other hand, my wife teaches junior high and sees a lot of this. While far from perfect, there are opportunites for education and other help. There is just no discipline or accountability in the schools.

However, there does have to be some level of personal responsibility and consequences when it's lacking. There are some limits to compassion.

 

[SurfnFish]

"The leading causes of homelessness among vets are PTSD, social isolation, unemployment, and substance abuse. Veterans account for 11% of homeless adults in the US."

"Over 85% of homeless families are headed by women - specifically, by single women with children - and domestic violence is a principal cause of homelessness among single mother families."

"Although prevalence rates vary considerably across studies, there is general agreement among researchers that the number of mentally ill individuals in jail is substantial, and that many of these individuals are arrested for minor crimes, particularly disorderly conduct. There is evidence that a large percentage of jailed individuals may also have been homeless at the time of arrest. The most striking finding was that nearly 21% were classified as homeless when they were arrested and 40 percent said they had been homeless at some time during the past few years. The researchers concluded that homelessness significantly increases the risk of indictment for violent criminal offenses among mentally disordered offenders (MDOs)."

 

[headduck]

Grew up wanting. Had many a friend who rifled through cars at night and did much worse... I chose not to.

People refuse to own their behavior and the consequence there in. In all realms.

Others join in on why they shouldn't have to own their behavior... we have a bunch of excuses for why its ok to be selfish and treat others like shit...when we all know it's not right.

Why are the thieves circumstance more heart wrenching than the victims..? Because the victim can afford to lose? Deserves to lose because they dont have a sad story?

We as a society accommodate and support this behavior... for lots of wierd and unhealthy reasons, personal or otherwise.

 

[Dustin Chromers]

"The leading causes of homelessness among vets are PTSD, social isolation, unemployment, and substance abuse. Veterans account for 11% of homeless adults in the US."

"Over 85% of homeless families are headed by women - specifically, by single women with children - and domestic violence is a principal cause of homelessness among single mother families."

"Although prevalence rates vary considerably across studies, there is general agreement among researchers that the number of mentally ill individuals in jail is substantial, and that many of these individuals are arrested for minor crimes, particularly disorderly conduct. There is evidence that a large percentage of jailed individuals may also have been homeless at the time of arrest. The most striking finding was that nearly 21% were classified as homeless when they were arrested and 40 percent said they had been homeless at some time during the past few years. The researchers concluded that homelessness significantly increases the risk of indictment for violent criminal offenses among mentally disordered offenders (MDOs)."

I'm speaking about thieves, not homeless people. Just because you don't have a home doesn't mean you're a thief or a bad person.

 

[Stonedfish]

Grew up wanting. Had many a friend who rifled through cars at night and did much worse... I chose not to.

People refuse to own their behavior and the consequence there in. In all realms.

Others join in on why they shouldn't have to own their behavior... we have a bunch of excuses for why its ok to be selfish and treat others like shit...when we all know it's not right.

Why are the thieves circumstance more heart wrenching than the victims..? Because the victim can afford to lose? Deserves to lose because they dont have a sad story?

We as a society accommodate and support this behavior... for lots of wierd and unhealthy reasons, personal or otherwise.

You just perfectly described many in the Nextdoor App crowd.
Someone will post that their bike was stolen and someone will reply they probably needed it or deserved it more then you while trying to justify the poor, criminal behavior.
Un…f’n…believable to me that people actually have that mindset.

Going back to the original post. The Coal Creek suspects don’t look either homeless or mentally unstable. They are just scum bag, POS thieves.

Someone mentioned to look deeper into your inconvenience. I did….. and I still shouldn’t have to be inconvenienced by having to worry about getting my shit stolen every time I want to enjoy a day on the water, in the park, hiking etc.
SF

 

[SurfnFish]

thieves are scum, regardless of causality, regardless of circumstances.

Witnessed first hand what happened in California when Reagan, to pay for a tax break for the wealthy, gutted social service costs, closing mental hospitals around the state. Within a matter of weeks thousands of previously hospitalized mentally ill were now abandoned on the streets of the cities. For the first time in the state's history, homeless grew like weeds on sidewalks. Other states saw what Reagan did and followed suit, within two years we had tens of thousands of the previously housed mentally ill now homeless across America.

These days, poverty has just cascaded the initial problem into an overwhelming one, and now we have multiple groups on the sidewalks.
- mentally ill, including PTSD vets, can't deal with life, need in-patient services.
- poverty families, usually uneducated, no skills, kids, need housing and job placement services.
- pure f'n losers who just want to get high , have zero interest in work, steal to support themselves. Need to be in prisons manufacturing products to pay for their room and board.

Only not a single state has the adequate social service programs to pay for any of it. Billions to Ukraine to support the war(support it) against Mad Putin, a howl when we ask voters to pay for social services. And meanwhile, every day an average of 16 ex-vets with PTSD kill themselves, many of them homeless.

Because we're overly permissive as a society? Fuk no, it's because we worship the rich, despise the poor, and expect everyone is born with the same tools to deal with the complexities of life and circumstances. Pure b.s.

 

[Brian Miller]

These days, poverty has just cascaded the initial problem into an overwhelming one, and now we have multiple groups on the sidewalks.
- mentally ill, including PTSD vets, can't deal with life, need in-patient services.

Only not a single state has the adequate social service programs to pay for any of it. Billions to Ukraine to support the war(support it) against Mad Putin, a howl when we ask voters to pay for social services. And meanwhile, every day an average of 16 ex-vets with PTSD kill themselves, many of them homeless

I receive free VA healthcare due to a service connected disability. My wife receives VA healthcare with a copay just for being an honorably discharged Vet, including two *successful surgeries by civilian surgeons* through Tri-West community care; thank God for the "Mission Act". We use it as a backup for our commercial Medicare-Med Advantage coverage. It has often been a hassle for us; especially her, to get past *the some (not all)* "I don't care" admin staff; the epitome of govt workers at their worst *and an aborted surgery at a VA facility* (makes me skeptical of govt run healthcare for sure!), but if a Vet walks into a VFW, American Legion Post, or any VA facility and says they need help for service connected PTSD and homelessness, I believe doors will swing open and support will be provided.

 

[FinLuver]

Those who believe in corporal punishment either never had kids, or have kids who likely want nothing to do with them. Have yet to meet the man that likes hitting that doesn't like to hit the bottle as well.

There’s a twisted spin on things…

 

[FinLuver]

Some people like to make their problems and somebody else's problems an obligation to others. I don't agree with that at all. If you steal to feed addiction stemming from abuse or whatever bullshit excuse you're still a thief. Thieves deserve zero quarter, period. You enable thieves by not dealing with them. We've built a habitat where they thrive. We have zoo keepers that enable them with their decade long evergreen college degrees who have built an industry ranching these folks. Take a walk through any camp in my town and it's young people of working age stripping cars and bikes. These are people who have a choice and the capacity to do something else. They simply choose not to because we've as a society tolerated their bullshit and made excuses for them. Some of the shittiest kids I knew had parents always defending them for their crap. Those guys now inhabit these camps. I don't like them. I don't have to like them. I don't like them because they are thieving shit bags. Good people should not have the burden or responsibility to deal with thieves regardless if they are the product of some poor parenting way back when. All this enabling shit is building a shrine to weakness. And it in end it helps enable the destruction of the vary species of human they say they are "helping".

Ya know, they used to hang horse thieves on the spot. Tall tree and a stout rope… ill
societal problems solved.

 

[SurfnFish]

There’s a twisted spin on things…

truth hurts

 

[jaredoconnor]

Some people like to make their problems and somebody else's problems an obligation to others. I don't agree with that at all. If you steal to feed addiction stemming from abuse or whatever bullshit excuse you're still a thief. Thieves deserve zero quarter, period. You enable thieves by not dealing with them. We've built a habitat where they thrive. We have zoo keepers that enable them with their decade long evergreen college degrees who have built an industry ranching these folks. Take a walk through any camp in my town and it's young people of working age stripping cars and bikes. These are people who have a choice and the capacity to do something else. They simply choose not to because we've as a society tolerated their bullshit and made excuses for them. Some of the shittiest kids I knew had parents always defending them for their crap. Those guys now inhabit these camps. I don't like them. I don't have to like them. I don't like them because they are thieving shit bags. Good people should not have the burden or responsibility to deal with thieves regardless if they are the product of some poor parenting way back when. All this enabling shit is building a shrine to weakness. And it in end it helps enable the destruction of the vary species of human they say they are "helping".

We have been here before. Like I said, crime cannot be tolerated, regardless of the reason. However, if you want to actually fix the problem, you have to look deeper.

What is your solution? It seems to me that there are only two things that can be done.

1. Raise taxes, to fund policing, jails, rehab and so on.
2. Raise taxes, to fund programs that stop it from getting to that point.

I have researched this a lot, while I was living in downtown Seattle and was forced to deal with this shit more than the vast majority here ever will. The second strategy is, by far, always the cheapest and most effective. Even if you don't have a compassionate bone in your body and are only interested in your own finances, focusing on mitigation is still the optimal path.

Just to be 100% clear, at no point have I ever said that policing, jails, rehab and so on shouldn't be part of the strategy. That should go without saying, but some folks here seem to be triggered and want the issue to be black and white. It isn't and the sooner folks realize that, the sooner things will improve.

 

[Dustin Chromers]

.

We have been here before. Like I said, crime cannot be tolerated, regardless of the reason. However, if you want to actually fix the problem, you have to look deeper.

What is your solution? It seems to me that there are only two things that can be done.

1. Raise taxes, to fund policing, jails, rehab and so on.
2. Raise taxes, to fund programs that stop it from getting to that point.

I have researched this a lot, while I was living in downtown Seattle and was forced to deal with this shit more than the vast majority here ever will. The second strategy is, by far, always the cheapest and most effective. Even if you don't have a compassionate bone in your body and are only interested in your own finances, focusing on mitigation is still the optimal path.

Just to be 100% clear, at no point have I ever said that policing, jails, rehab and so on shouldn't be part of the strategy. That should go without saying, but some folks here seem to be triggered and want the issue to be black and white. It isn't and the sooner folks realize that, the sooner things will improve.

Seattle spends increasing amounts of money annually and the problem grows. It's not a money problem. We all know this if we look honestly and deeply. And to be frank, I don't want to pay an increasing amount of money and taxes to only grow a problem. You can research all you want but at the end of the day if you tolerate and maintain a habitat for criminal activity it flourishes. The problem is the product for many who feign working on a solution. I've become far less interested in the ineffective and expensive solutions practiced in these stronghold ranches of human sorrow and far more interested in staying far away and personal security. It sucks I can't leave a vehicle at a trail head. The social contract is broken so why am I left with a bill from governance that is in default and breach of said contract.

 

[Dustin Chromers]

truth hurts

It can, but only when it's true. If then statements work in computer programming but rarely for psychology or social issues. But that doesn't stop people from overusing them as a trap that they think works but in reality it's a weak undeveloped method of pseudo debate as there's no debate. Just a false semantic trap.

 

[SurfnFish]

l

We have been here before. Like I said, crime cannot be tolerated, regardless of the reason. However, if you want to actually fix the problem, you have to look deeper.

What is your solution? It seems to me that there are only two things that can be done.

1. Raise taxes, to fund policing, jails, rehab and so on.
2. Raise taxes, to fund programs that stop it from getting to that point.

I have researched this a lot, while I was living in downtown Seattle and was forced to deal with this shit more than the vast majority here ever will. The second strategy is, by far, always the cheapest and most effective. Even if you don't have a compassionate bone in your body and are only interested in your own finances, focusing on mitigation is still the optimal path.

Just to be 100% clear, at no point have I ever said that policing, jails, rehab and so on shouldn't be part of the strategy. That should go without saying, but some folks here seem to be triggered and want the issue to be black and white. It isn't and the sooner folks realize that, the sooner things will improve.

X2...never happen, we're in a country that provides huge tax breaks for the uber rich and corporations that outsource their jobs overseas, including those never hiring anything but white collar to work their books stateside, the so called 'job producers'...when I left my run in high tech, my company had 1.4B parked offshore to avoid taxes, but all of the employees in the company working stateside? yea, we paid ours, paid plenty. And why did I leave? Because the company wanted me on a strictly covert basis to build a 1200 seat engineering operation in India, and when it was done, the company would begin hiring Indian software engineers in batches, get them up and running, and as they came on line lay off an equal number of US engineers. This the company with 1.4B in cash parked offshore doing nothing. Couldn't stomach it, so when back to indepdent consulting.

Thread won't change anyone's mind, everyone has their fixed POV's..over and out

 

[Dustin Chromers]

l

X2...never happen, we're in a country that provides huge tax breaks for the uber rich and corporations that outsource their jobs overseas, never hiring anything but white collar to work their books stateside, the so called 'job producers'...when I left my run in high tech, my company had 1.4B parked offshore to avoid taxes...but all of employees in the company working stateside? yea, we paid ours, paid plenty.

Thread won't change anyone's mind, everyone has their fixed POV's..over and out

Nobody is stealing from cars at a trailhead because a company is making obscene money and parking funds offshore. The two simply aren't related.

 

[DimeBrite]

This gets my vote for dumbest June thread. Thieves should be arrested, face prosecution, be forced to pay restitution, and do community service (at a minimum). Repeat offenders should all visit county jail. The tax money is already there in excess.

 

[FinLuver]

We have been here before. Like I said, crime cannot be tolerated, regardless of the reason. However, if you want to actually fix the problem, you have to look deeper.

What is your solution? It seems to me that there are only two things that can be done.

1. Raise taxes, to fund policing, jails, rehab and so on.
2. Raise taxes, to fund programs that stop it from getting to that point.

I have researched this a lot, while I was living in downtown Seattle and was forced to deal with this shit more than the vast majority here ever will. The second strategy is, by far, always the cheapest and most effective. Even if you don't have a compassionate bone in your body and are only interested in your own finances, focusing on mitigation is still the optimal path.

Just to be 100% clear, at no point have I ever said that policing, jails, rehab and so on shouldn't be part of the strategy. That should go without saying, but some folks here seem to be triggered and want the issue to be black and white. It isn't and the sooner folks realize that, the sooner things will improve.

Pouring gasoline is always the best way to fight a fire…

 

[kerrys]

To damn many people.

We are seeing the beginning of the collapse. Everyone that has posted to this thread is correct. I’m living beyond my expiration date and I am grateful but I don’t envy those of you that will outlive me. Your world is going to get worse and none of you can do a damn thing about it. We are no better than rats with a large food supply. At some point it will reach a breaking point.

 

[FinLuver]

To damn many people.

We are seeing the beginning of the collapse. Everyone that has posted to this thread is correct. I’m living beyond my expiration date and I am grateful but I don’t envy those of you that will outlive me. Your world is going to get worse and none of you can do a damn thing about it. We are no better than rats with a large food supply. At some point it will reach a breaking point.

As did many earlier civilizations…
History has a way of repeating itself, not studied… learned and improved upon.