Fitness/Health/Exercise Stuff with Evan

Salmo_g said:
I already fizzled on my New Year's resolution, having tweaked my back on New Year's Eve. My pain level is just now decreasing to where I can almost resume normal function without narcotics. I'm trying stretches to see if that pinched nerve can't reposition some. I had intended to rejoin the health club this month, but I need to get to the point where I can participate first. I think I'd like to do spin classes again for cardio; I used to ride a lot.
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if not already doing it, cold packs 20 mins on the hour as much as possible, and consider picking up an tens unit, use it a couple times a day followed by cold pack. This is the the PT gold standard for back issue pain.
Also consider trying Voltaren Gel, a very effective topical NSAD available over the counter.
My daughter is a PT, became interested in the profession after accompanying me during her teenage years to PT sessions for two herniated discs I managed through flareups without surgery for decades.

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For those with back pain as it relates to fitness.
Had an injury that herniated two lower back discs in my earlier 30's, wife was the practice nurse for the Niner team orthopedic surgeons at the time, so was seen in their clinic. After MRI and exam was given two options. Fusion surgery, or manage the condition through core training and I chose the latter.
As a surfer living at the beach in Half Moon Bay who was in the water over 200 days a year I was already lean and uber fit, or at least I thought so until I went through intensive 'back school' with PT's who treated pro athletes, and found my core needed a lot of work.
Along with learning proper biomechanics, back school is all about strengthening the core muscle groups surrounding the lower back..abs, lat's, quads, hip flexors...along with learning how to stretch the hamstrings and hips, so that the muscles take the strain of movement and force with minimal strain on the spine.
I'd urge those with ongoing back problems to consider doing something similar. It requires a lot of work on the front end, including weight management, and then an ongoing core strengthening program.
Except for those with unmanageable issues requiring surgery, however, it will significantly reduce the 'down' days from back flare-ups as well as increase overall fitness, which is a reward in itself.
 
Evan B said:
Zone 2 is one that took me a loooong time to come to terms with in my run training. Like you say, it just doesn't give you that same level of intense feeling you're used to. It just serves a very different purpose. Its benefits come into play for endurance training mostly (there's other benefits, but this is the most tangible one). If you're wanting to train for a half marathon for example; If you go out hot every day you train and run in threshold zones, you'll probably never build the capacity to make it much past a couple miles before you gas out.

Those zone 2 workouts are meant to be long. If you stick to that zone, you can hit longer endurance targets and actually build capacity for going longer with more intensity as your training progresses. We could go into a whole other tangent about mitochondrial adaptation and fat metabolism/metabolic efficiency benefits of zone 2, but I need to not write a novel every time I respond here.

Similarly, zone 3 has most of its usefulness in the endurance world. While zone 2 is about building capacity without intensity (our ability to go further) with low fatigue, zone 3 is that next step up where we're starting to train/maintain intensity over longer periods. This is where I spend a lot of my maintenance runs. I'm not looking to build capacity when I go out for a 5mi familiar route, but I do like to maintain some level of ability to maintain intensity without the need for several days of recovery like going over threshold (zone 4 & 5) would do. It's a way to kind of toe the intensity line while maintaining high training volume.

Example "maintenance" run from two days ago:
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Compare to the "all out" effort from 1.5wks ago where I basically had to take the rest of the week off from running with only light gym sessions (this is more like race day only effort):
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So to compare to what you're talking about using this heart rate zones in short intervals: that's where they have less usefulness and benefit. High intensity interval training, which it sounds like is what you're usually doing, should be done going in and out of the threshold and anaerobic zones.
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It took me most of my life to come to grips with the zone 2 concept…seemed so lame. After my first 5 day backpack hunt at 47, I became friends with zone 2. My entire life has been playing and coaching court or field sports. Until backpack hunting I never had any practical use for endurance.


I was still training myself the same way I trained our players because it was fun for me, but it wasn’t practical for how I was living my life. Once I started implementing some endurance training I realized I had been missing out on so many benefits I hadn’t considered. I still strength train every other day and once/week I will drop the hammer and do some sort of shorter, high intensity workout akin to a CrossFit metcon, but I spend every other day in zone 2 for 45 minutes.

I don’t do well with “rest days”. Spending every other day doing something longer with less intensity allows me to train 7 days/week because I’m never sore. For me, hunting days are like game days or competition days. Anything can happen on those days and I don’t hold anything back…sometimes I end up sore on those days. A 100# 10 mile pack out is what it is and there’s no avoiding the affects of those days.
 
Coach Potter said:
It took me most of my life to come to grips with the zone 2 concept…seemed so lame. After my first 5 day backpack hunt at 47, I became friends with zone 2. My entire life has been playing and coaching court or field sports. Until backpack hunting I never had any practical use for endurance.


I was still training myself the same way I trained our players because it was fun for me, but it wasn’t practical for how I was living my life. Once I started implementing some endurance training I realized I had been missing out on so many benefits I hadn’t considered. I still strength train every other day and once/week I will drop the hammer and do some sort of shorter, high intensity workout akin to a CrossFit metcon, but I spend every other day in zone 2 for 45 minutes.

I don’t do well with “rest days”. Spending every other day doing something longer with less intensity allows me to train 7 days/week because I’m never sore. For me, hunting days are like game days or competition days. Anything can happen on those days and I don’t hold anything back…sometimes I end up sore on those days. A 100# 10 mile pack out is what it is and there’s no avoiding the affects of those days.
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Here's a bit of a "plug" for Zone 2 -

I am currently on a personal goal of doing at least one half marathon per month. Not like, signing up for one. Just getting out and doing one on my own. On saturday, I went out for a pretty high effort/fast-ish 6miler and felt great. I was still feeling it on Sunday, but decided I wanted to get out anyways. I figured since I didn't have any real plans, I'd get my half marathon for Feb out of the way, but do it at a zone 2 "recovery" pace. Two birds with one stone.

It absolutely kicked my ass. The one I had done just a week prior, at a much higher intensity, was SUBSTANTIALLY easier. Like, not even on the same planet.

When it comes to runs like this, low intensity/zone 2 runs = more time on feet, which equals more "reps." So trading it being difficult cardio-wise for being more difficult on the muscles and joints. My moderate to high intensity half marathon can be in the 1:50-1:40 range (I could definitely hit 1:30 on race day if I wanted, but don't while training on my own). The one I did yesterday while keeping my heart rate at around 140bpm was like 2:20. So waaaaay longer workout.

But what needs to be understood about the benefits of Zone 2 is you're building infrastructure, while high intensity is using that infrastructure. It's a very different feeling, and requires a different mindset. But your intense workouts will greatly benefit from it.


(new topic)
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I've been asked by a few who reached out - how do you keep up your motivation to keep things routine?

My response
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It's not about motivation at all. It's about discipline. Use the same mindset you use/used to get up and go to work every morning.

Another mindset is one where you change "I HAVE to go do this" to "I GET to go do this." Your ability to get off your ass and do hard things is a gift. Don't take it for granted.

That's all for today :D
 
At 74 my main physical goals are to maintain flexibility, endurance and strength to do the things I enjoy, and retirement four years ago has made it even easier to do so.

In my younger years I trained for full marathons and while I managed a consistent time of around 3:30 I'm relieved that the primitive heavy mileage marathon training regimes of those days didn't result in any apparent knee damage....unlike my wife's necessity for running induced knee replacement in recent years. For a great many people the running craze of the 80's and 90's was a slow motion life altering disaster.

I've found independent physical maintenance works best for me, probably because I'm an introvert and enjoy my own company. Staying motivated isn't a problem and I believe I've pretty good form because I feel the benefits and haven't suffered any exercise related injuries in decades. I'm active because it reliably makes me feel good and inactivity simply makes me feel shitty.

I've used a Concept 2 rower for many years, after wearing out some cheaper less robust brands, stationary bike & snowshoe in winter/mountain & roadbike in the warmer months (including riding a non-electric fatbike, which makes riding every other bike I own feel easy), walk several miles of some steep local stuff most every day, and also incorporate some flexibility and strength training I learned from PTs years ago.

Many of my once physically active associates are dead or now functionally disabled largely due to living increasingly sedentary lifestyles. The kiss of death for many affluent seniors is the move to retirement communities where they literally have no necessity to do anything that involves physical activity.

It's an easy and seductive progression as one ages...further aggravated by a society that tacitly encourages seniors to 'act their age'. I'm going down fighting.
 
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flybill said:
Had my first session with my personal trainer Hannah at 6am!

Www.kuttingedgefitness.com

So much fun! What a cool place!!
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Hoping Hannah is more on top of things than this guy. No idea why they'd post this photo as that is not a grip/foot stance that matches any lift at all. His hands are somewhere between snatch and clean/deadlift, and feet are way out in a wide squat stance. I get that their market isn't someone like me who knows lift mechanics, but if I saw someone in my gym holding 155lb in that stance, I'd tell them it's time for some remedial training.
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krusty said:
For a great many people the running craze of the 80's and 90's was a slow motion life altering disaster.
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A big reason for that is the shoes of the time. Nike basically created a problem, and made the product to "solve" that problem. Until the last 7-8yrs, MOST running shoes did more damage to people than they did help them. They were cushioned in such a way that encouraged poor form. The shoes of the 70s, 80s, 90s were especially bad for this, and running injuries were an "if, not when" inevitability for most people until the last decade. In those days, you'd have been better off running in treaded socks than their cushioned running shoes.

That's a whole other rabbit hole to go down, but I'll spare it for now. I just don't want to scare folks off of running when a lot of these issues have been getting recent updates that are helping a ton.
 
Evan B said:
A big reason for that is the shoes of the time. Nike basically created a problem, and made the product to "solve" that problem. Until the last 7-8yrs, MOST running shoes did more damage to people than they did help them. They were cushioned in such a way that encouraged poor form. The shoes of the 70s and 80s were especially bad for this, and running injuries were an "if, not when" inevitability for most people until the last decade.

That's a whole other rabbit hole to go down, but I'll spare it for now. I just don't want to scare folks off of running when a lot of these issues have been getting recent updates that are helping a ton.
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Shoes of the era were indeed abysmal, but there weren't really any widely accepted weekly mileage routines focusing on simply completing a marathon. Achieving a good marathon time was everything and most of us put in 75 to 100 mile weeks, twice daily runs, with many weekly 20 mile days preparing for a marathon. I was very lucky...one of my primary marathon running partners went on to become a nationally ranked Ironman, but nowadays is barely able to walk from multiple knee surgeries. Moderate levels of running provide excellent cardio benefit...but a great many people need to learn to walk before engaging in that 'fast-form' of exercise. Humans are built to walk....but few even manage to that.
 
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krusty said:
Shoes of the era were indeed abysmal, but there weren't really any widely accepted weekly mileage routines focusing on simply completing a marathon. Achieving a good marathon time was everything and most of us put in 75 to 100 mile weeks, twice daily runs, with many weekly 20 mile days preparing for a marathon. I was very lucky...one of my primary marathon running partners went on to become a nationally ranked Ironman, but nowadays is barely able to walk from multiple knee surgeries. Moderate levels of running provide excellent cardio benefit...but a great many people need to learn to walk before engaging in that 'fast-form' of exercise. Humans are built to walk....but few even manage to that.
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That mileage regimen isn't that out of the norm even for today. But like I said, those shoes at the time really did a number on people. That level of poor running form (exacerbated by the shoes) over that many miles is a huge reason why so many people ended up hurt.

Humans indeed evolved as walkers, but our evolutionary advantage was our ability to run for longer than any other animal on the planet. We're not the fastest, but we can out-run any other land-based creature given enough time/distance.
 
Evan B said:
That mileage regimen isn't that out of the norm even for today. But like I said, those shoes at the time really did a number on people. That level of poor running form (exacerbated by the shoes) over that many miles is a huge reason why so many people ended up hurt.

Humans indeed evolved as walkers, but our evolutionary advantage was our ability to run for longer than any other animal on the planet. We're not the fastest, but we can out-run any other land-based creature given enough time/distance.
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Try that with a pronghorn, ostrich, or wolf! 😁
 
krusty said:
Try that with a pronghorn, ostrich, or wolf! 😁
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Over very long distances in warmer conditions, even those would fall under the "can human can out-run" category. Granted, I'm talking about a human that's not living the modern sedentary lifestyle... Just that the human genome is very capable of this, and there are humans in the world still capable of it.
 
Gonna feel pretty silly dyin' of nothin'...
 
Evan B said:
Over very long distances in warmer conditions, even those would fall under the "can human can out-run" category. Granted, I'm talking about a human that's not living the modern sedentary lifestyle... Just that the human genome is very capable of this, and there are humans in the world still capable of it.
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Sure, no fur, sweating and upright posture, slow twitch muscles...but you'd be hard pressed to find many humans who could outrun a pronghorn. Sure they're out there, and persistence hunting is a thing, but the actual numbers of humans who could do this is so low as to be a rounding error in the total population.
Just like saying humans can have Steven Hawking like IQs, then count the actual humans that do.
 
Matt B said:
I'm considering switching to Cheetos without Red 40 dye. I figure that'll buy me another 5-10 years, easily.
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more fishin' down round the concrete plants cancels that out, easy.

Mountain dew and cheetos is perfect fuel for straight-edge mosh pit carnage or high intensity zone 4 performance depending on what you want to call it.
 
Mossback said:
Sure, no fur, sweating and upright posture, slow twitch muscles...but you'd be hard pressed to find many humans who could outrun a pronghorn. Sure they're out there, and persistence hunting is a thing, but the actual numbers of humans who could do this is so low as to be a rounding error in the total population.
Just like saying humans can have Steven Hawking like IQs, then count the actual humans that do.
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Sure, maybe an African Swallow could do it, but not a European Swallow....
 
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