Fly Fishing Elitism?

At least in Oregon, the number of flyfishing only fisheries is miniscule compared to non-restricted fisheries. I don't see the regulations as to gear use is a problem around these parts.
There would be far more quality waters if they were fly fishing only. Hell the bitching from guides is audible from my house when they can't use bait on a selective area. There's also way less litter on the selective areas. I honestly don't think there's anything wrong with being elitist when is comes to a resource. The everybody gets a trophy crowd can suck it. There are ranks in life for a reason. Always has been. Meanwhile we are out here trying to make the bottom feeders of the world feel comfortable. No way. It is what it is and they are what they are. Let them fish carp with power bait I say. They can eat their chunk tuna in wonder bread for all I care. The poor animals won't know the difference.
 
The littering part. Will say they're the worst offenders. They also don't know the first thing about how to shit outdoors...or use an outhouse for that matter. All I got on that one.

Nothing new that the guy with the fancy Jordans, or the $12k aero bike, isn't the most talented athlete. Same in every sport. Some of my cohorts will recall Mercedes Guy from an infamous outing. Only thing louder than the RV hood ornament was his mouth. But yeah, there was no talking coming from his $1,000 Sage. At least @Roper and I were entertained. @Islander not sure how much of that you saw - I know you were busy on the road in, collecting the outfallen contents of your camper 🤣

On quality lakes, IMO the chosen regs, along with management methods, are a mere fraction of all the necessary inputs that provide a worthwhile venue. Many are not controllable, they just occur on their own. At day's end, the issue with overpopulation has to be resolved.

Typically it's not a seasonal P&T lake, and planters are thinned in a consistent way while thriving in a balanced environment. Some amount of catch and keep, predation and even stressed conditions (temps etc) is usually required. You need that to achieve a population size that enables longevity and ultimately a memorable outing. So yes, Bubba is almost always a necessity in that equasion - again, at the right amount. Add all those factors up and it's easy too see why "that lake" is a rarity.

I look at Pass, for example, and it hints at what a "quality fishery" could be. But there too, I'd argue the lake has always been overpopulated. Understood, fly fishers also need a fishery that coughs up and I wouldn't make that place any more challenging for the average guy. A better fishery would skunk too many off, same as the P&T's.

If you want your cake and eat it too, no need to pass any new legislation. There actually are waters full of fatties where the average "elite" can hit 'em like a pro. I think it's called Pay to Play.
 
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The littering part. Will say they're the worst offenders. They also don't know the first thing about how to shit outdoors...or use an outhouse for that matter. All I got on that one.

Nothing new that the guy with the fancy Jordans, or the $12k aero bike, isn't the most talented athlete. Same in every sport. Some of my cohorts will recall Mercedes Guy from an infamous outing. Only thing louder than the RV hood ornament was his mouth. But yeah, there was no talking coming from his $1,000 Sage. At least @Roper and I were entertained. @Islander not sure how much of that you saw - I know you were busy on the road in, collecting the outfallen contents of your camper 🤣

On quality lakes, IMO the chosen regs, along with management methods, are a mere fraction of all the necessary inputs that provide a worthwhile venue. Many are not controllable, they just occur on their own. At day's end, the issue with overpopulation has to be resolved.

Typically it's not a seasonal P&T lake, and planters are thinned in a consistent way while thriving in a balanced environment. Some amount of catch and keep, predation and even stressed conditions (temps etc) is usually required. You need that to achieve a population size that enables longevity and ultimately a memorable outing. So yes, Bubba is almost always a necessity in that equasion - again, at the right amount. Add all those factors up and it's easy too see why "that lake" is a rarity.

I look at Pass, for example, and it hints at what a "quality fishery" could be. But there too, I'd argue the lake has always been overpopulated. Understood, fly fishers also need a fishery that coughs up and I wouldn't make that place any more challenging for the average guy. A better fishery would skunk too many off, same as the P&T's.

If you want your cake and eat it too, no need to pass any new legislation. There actually are waters full of fatties where the average "elite" can hit 'em like a pro. I think it's called Pay to Play.
OMG, that guy was such a tool…
 
The issue doesn't seem that complicated to me.

I believe that fishery regulations are intended to maintain the health and vitality of the fishery and, in this case are probably based on some statistics that show that fly-only waters tend to be 'more of this' or 'less than that'.

I don't believe that the government always gets it right by any means (and sometimes totally misses the mark!) but in the case of the various fish and wildlife departments, I believe that their intentions are generally good and put forth in good faith.

I hate to see economics or hurt feelings prioritized above the health of our fisheries! To (very) loosely paraphrase Jim Morrison: You can't negotiate with Mother Nature!
 
The best of regulations intended to preserve a fishery are easily overrun by the deliberate actions of dipshits who illegally plant fish they want to catch with zero fuks about the impact on the protected fishery.
Crane Prairie a showcase example of this. What was previously a trophy trout lake has been hammered by the illegal introduction of multiple illegal species including bass and brown channel catfish, both of which feed on juvenile trout, and tui chub and bluegill. Between the predation and competition for food what was once an outstanding trophy trout lake no longer is.
Few levels of stink eye can match that as from the old guy float tubers in the Cultus Channel when a lifted and waxed 4x4 launches a 200 hp bass boat which chugs by with strung bass rods.
 
The best of regulations intended to preserve a fishery are easily overrun by the deliberate actions of dipshits who illegally plant fish they want to catch with zero fuks about the impact on the protected fishery.
Crane Prairie a showcase example of this. What was previously a trophy trout lake has been hammered by the illegal introduction of multiple illegal species including bass and brown channel catfish, both of which feed on juvenile trout, and tui chub and bluegill. Between the predation and competition for food what was once an outstanding trophy trout lake no longer is.
Few levels of stink eye can match that as from the old guy float tubers in the Cultus Channel when a lifted and waxed 4x4 launches a 200 hp bass boat which chugs by with strung bass rods.
Not to mention the sticklebacks introduced by some live bait slinger. I have been in the little D where I couldn’t even see the bottom through all the sticklebacks.
 
Some ice fishing assclowns using live minnows in a well known pay to play flyfishing lake in BC (closed in the winter) now has a bunch of shit bait minnows thriving in it. I’d put money on it that it wasn’t fly fishers…..
 
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If you fish in an ascot, and your parents aren't related other than by marriage, you might be an elitist.
But to be honest the term has been so overused/misused the past decade or so that it's sort of lost any impact these days. Now it's just used by people to describe someone they don't like in a higher socioeconomic bracket.
It's a cravat, from Patagonia 🙄
 
How do others think about 'A River Runs Through It' if it had any support/impact on elitists and the elite?
 
Perception is everything in today’s world.

Perfect Joan Wulff arm, wrist, grip along with appropriate gear as far as I can determine. That parts good.

Elitist?

IMG_4730.jpeg
 
How do others think about 'A River Runs Through It' if it had any support/impact on elitists and the elite?
Great question!
I read the book before, and again after the movie. I’ve always thought that a good, and great author, can draw your emotion deeper into a story than any visual can. They have the ability to paint a picture deeper into your mind as if you are a part of the story if, and that’s a big if, you embrace each other; story/mind -mind/story.
You get to ask yourself questions such as:
What would I do?
How would I react?
Is this rational in the moment?

On a big screen or even today’s TVs I think the visual stimuli overwhelms the ability of the brain to manage reality. The photography was excellent but for me it didn’t “add” anything. Probably regressed for me. YMMV.
The difference between a Slide Rule and TI Calculator. One is much more interesting.

It obviously did for millions who transferred loyalty from the LL Bean’s et al of the world to the likes of Orvis and they learned Sage wasn’t just a seasoning. Those being the folks with a boatload of discretionary income jumped on the bandwagon. As a result R&D was a + + though. And rods/reels doubled in price.
The same thing happened with golf when the movie “A Sand Trap Runs Through It” was released and that guy Leopard Trees won everything. Then the drunken 20 Somethings started slurring.. In da whole…in da whole. Shit, that’s right…..can’t call them a Sand Trap anymore, might offend someone. Sorry, a Hazard.
 
That and the Aberdeen Safeway always make me think of this:


Aberdeen is peak American shit hole. The real zombie zoo is the colorful characters of the city council. There is like 2 normal people and the rest occupy some addict ranching scheme of faux compassion wrapped in political ideology that can only be described as inconceivable. These same folks lauded Wal Marts arrival as tax negative. Likely this was a scheme to create more habitat for their preferred species and kill off as many small businesses as possible. It's been a great strategy along with burned out vacant building plan. Solid leadership I tell you.
 
Aberdeen is peak American shit hole. The real zombie zoo is the colorful characters of the city council. There is like 2 normal people and the rest occupy some addict ranching scheme of faux compassion wrapped in political ideology that can only be described as inconceivable. These same folks lauded Wal Marts arrival as tax negative. Likely this was a scheme to create more habitat for their preferred species and kill off as many small businesses as possible. It's been a great strategy along with burned out vacant building plan. Solid leadership I tell you.
“Come as you are…leave much, much worse.”
 
As I read through this thread the similarities to a racist rant become alarming. "They" keeps coming up like a Zombie flick. We are talking about "US" as being framed as elitists which is something I am not proud of being called. I would like to think we need bait fisherpeople to be on our side when it comes to saving the few cold water environments we have left. Until this particular thread I was under the impression that most folks on this forum felt the same way.
 
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