Fishing over spooky, pressured, or otherwise well-educated carp.

Evan B

Evan B

Bobber Downey Jr.
Staff member
Admin
After my last few outings, my new reality is setting in: The previously dumb, relatively unpressured, happy carp I'd been fishing to for the last decade-ish have turned a corner. They are no longer here to party. When they know you're around, they peace out at the slightest hint of any disturbance on the water within 100' of them.

Okay, maybe a bit of an exaggeration, but it certainly feels that way. Most the carp seem to turn tail and bolt at the first site of a fly being presented, though.

Do you have any methods for these wary targets?
 
Evan, I definitely have noticed, even further up stream. I also have noticed that it's not super bad when wading, just harder, yet I've only been doing this seriously for a handful of years....it's still noticeable. Probably due to getting pounded from all the guides on boats these days. Personally, I've just been exploring new to me water further out. Sometimes strike out, but often it's so worth it.
 
I am finding the same thing on my local carp water. It's not that carp haven't always been nervous: line a carp and they're gone, splat a big heavy fly and they're gone. But last year I noticed that not only were carp more difficult to locate, they were, for lack of a better description; EXTREMELY flighty, seemingly more easily spooked. More wary? I attribute this to increased pressure.

Side note; late last fall my friend Jerry hit our favorite lake early one morning and found 30+ dead carp: we think that bow hunters stalked them at night.
 
It’s the carpocalypse! Actually this scene was pretty crazy early spring, not sure if these die-offs are normal elsewhere.
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I don't know anything about carp
However fish are fish

1. Throw an imitation of their food
2. Approach them in such a way as they do not know you are there
3. Make a presentation that imitates their food in a natural manner.

Sometimes looking at things from the basics up can lead to the best tactics.
 
Hopefully it will become a bit of a self-limiting issue, where clients decide they don't want to pay to fish in those circumstances.
 
I've stuck a few, mostly blind because of colored up water, by stripping damsel nymphs. I know some guys that have also had limited luck under a bobber with a squirmy worm or damsel type thing. Sorry @Buzzy, an indicator. 😁

I've only been targeting them a few times a year for the last 4 years so my data is pretty small, but I had fish in June this year and July last year that acted just like the "old days"...aka dumb. Hell, I caught one in June just dangling the damn rod right over him. Also had a few eat that definitely knew I was there. Had some move in behind me while I was casting to others. Of course, when you take a step to turn around they bolt, but the waving rod didn't seem to deflect them. I've always just assumed they are the spookiest fish on the planet, especially back in my snagging days. Has the pressure made them even more that way? Probably

I'm more frustrated by empty flats than spooky fish on the flats. My last 2 times out on big "lakes" I was on some juicy flats, with obvious carp pock marks, that were 100% devoid of a single carp. Wind, water level & temp and outside temps all probably had something to do with it, but it was rough.
 
Tried a bobber on one flat in heavy wind and limited visibility earlier this year and all I got was a dumb big smallie....even a had a beer in my other hand! 😆. Fairly certain that's the ticket.
 
I haven't fished carp, largely because I don't live close to any. Of course, they are fish, and we know that even the dumbest fish out there learns about things to avoid when it gets hooked. I have always heard carp are finicky to begin with; add in spooky and you've got a challenge on your hands.

I would suggest a clear line, a longer leader, and a smaller, light or unweighted fly. If you are casting to cruisers that are SUPER spooky, you can try to lead them so it takes a few seconds for them to get to where your fly is before you start your retrieve. If they're spooking as soon as you step in, get yourself about where you think you need to be too cast to where theye were, get your line stripped out, then wait for them to come back. If they don't come back, they're too tough for the likes of me, but if you keep after them, I bet you will find a way to approach them without spooking them. Solving the puzzle would be frustrating, but you'd learn a lot in the process.

It just occurred to me that carp have a downward-oriented mouth, suggesting that they eat a lot of stuff off of the bottom. That makes me thing something you can move along the bottom (tie so the hook point faces up). Maybe something like a crayfish pattern? That would be easier to lead them with; just let it sit on the bottom until they get within range and start moving it slowly....
 
Evan B said:
After my last few outings, my new reality is setting in: The previously dumb, relatively unpressured, happy carp I'd been fishing to for the last decade-ish have turned a corner. They are no longer here to party. When they know you're around, they peace out at the slightest hint of any disturbance on the water within 100' of them.

Okay, maybe a bit of an exaggeration, but it certainly feels that way. Most the carp seem to turn tail and bolt at the first site of a fly being presented, though.

Do you have any methods for these wary targets?
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I haven't noticed that the carp are that much spookier where I fish for them (I am guessing you are fishing the areas closer to PDX, and I am fishing out past Biggs), but the last couple of years have been tougher. Water levels and weeds have been presenting challenges, and I am seeing worn trails into places where I have not seen another person in the past.

This year I made a trip in May and the water levels were too high below McNary Dam and too low above. I fished for 2 days and cast at 4 carp, and 2 of those turned out to be rocks. All my normal flats were chest deep and I couldn't find any water to fish.

I just got back from an annual trip with buddies that we moved to July this year (normally early June) because we were finding high water the past couple of years in June. Well, the water levels in July were perfect, but all the flats were choked with weeds and mostly unfishable. We saw lots of carp, but mostly sunner's, and very few that were in a mood to eat a fly. But the consolation Smallmouth bycatch was fun. There were lots of those guys around in the weeds.

My suggestions for the spooky carp closer to PDX. I would guess with the guides fishing those waters every day now, and more popularity in general, the fish have become more wary. I would think wading would be a stealthier way to approach them than by boat and trying to make as little disturbance as possible, so they don't detect your presence. Drop the fly a few feet away from them and drag it into position (I am sure you already do this). But if they are spooking on your false cast that is pretty tough.
 
@Evan B - When fishing from your boat, how are you moving through the flat? Push pole, wind drift or electric motor? Other?
 
Buzzy said:
@Evan B - When fishing from your boat, how are you moving through the flat? Push pole, wind drift or electric motor? Other?
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I approach the flats with my bow mount Minn Kota, then bust out the push pole. Most shots I take are 50-60' out to play the stealth game. I find this approach stealthier than wading, personally. I actually don't find they spook from my approach there. They're mostly spooking when they get the first glance at my fly, any fly. Yes, a few spook when my cast lands, even from 5-10' away trying to lead them. But most are happily feeding, turn to get a glance at the morsel that just dropped on their dinner plate, then bolt.
 
Evan B said:
I approach the flats with my bow mount Minn Kota, then bust out the push pole. Most shots I take are 50-60' out to play the stealth game. I find this approach stealthier than wading, personally. I actually don't find they spook from my approach there. They're mostly spooking when they get the first glance at my fly, any fly. Yes, a few spook when my cast lands, even from 5-10' away trying to lead them. But most are happily feeding, turn to get a glance at the morsel that just dropped on their dinner plate, then bolt.
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I have not seen this behavior very often. I have seen refusals where they obviously see the fly and don’t eat, and sometimes I see cruisers that I don’t expect to eat act this way. But rarely have I seen feeding fish that run from a meal. That is weird. I can’t imagine that even with more pressure that they have all been caught and released before. But it sounds like they have learned to spot a fake. All I ever use is a John Bartlett hybrid with a maroon tail and it rarely gets refused. What flies are you using?
 
chief said:
I have not seen this behavior very often. I have seen refusals where they obviously see the fly and don’t eat, and sometimes I see cruisers that I don’t expect to eat act this way. But rarely have I seen feeding fish that run from a meal. That is weird. I can’t imagine that even with more pressure that they have all been caught and released before. But it sounds like they have learned to spot a fake. All I ever use is a John Bartlett hybrid with a maroon tail and it rarely gets refused. What flies are you using?
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Well the other day I went through about a half dozen different ones and got the same behavior on each. Previous seasons, they weren't picky: if you landed on the dinner plate, you'd get eaten almost every time. Now I'm getting violent refusals most the time vs the behavior I'm used to.
 
Evan B said:
Well the other day I went through about a half dozen different ones and got the same behavior on each. Previous seasons, they weren't picky: if you landed on the dinner plate, you'd get eaten almost every time. Now I'm getting violent refusals most the time vs the behavior I'm used to.
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Did you start using a new sunscreen, bug dope, or perfume?
 
Zak said:
Did you start using a new sunscreen, bug dope, or perfume?
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Nope, same sum protection I've been using. Bugs aren't an issue on the Columbia so that wouldn't be a factor either.
 
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Incidentally, this reminds me of what has become of most of my favorite PS SRC fisheries in recent years. Fish that once bit reliably and made me look like a genius now bite seldom and remind me that I'm actually closer to stupid (the hard truth). Pressure is a killer, Man.
 
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