A glimmer of reason in the automotive world

iveofione

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I have never been shy about disputing the mix of vehicles sold by the major manufacturers. I have seen so many gaffes, bad decisions and idiotic "innovations" over the years and wonder how the big companies keep shooting themselves in the foot after 125 years. I have only been around for 86 years but have seen far more major companies fail than exist today. And even when they do something right a fickle public can reject their efforts and pick something dumb instead. A good example of this is the minivan, the best configuration of a family vehicle yet invented and a far better road trip vehicle than anything else. Yet we all know about the ridicule it has received once the SUV became the latest thing. The minivan is less expensive to buy, less expensive to insure, more comfortable, drives better, gets better mileage and has more passenger space than anything but the most monstrous SUV's. Since I have owned both I am keenly aware of the differences and own what is essentially a SUV myself.

In an effort to close the gap between the functionality of the minivan and the less commodious SUV something was developed called 'the third row seat' meaning that you could now put people where the luggage was supposed to be. Even small vehicles went that route with small children being assigned to the very rear of the vehicle where their little bodies were to absorb the impact of a rear end collision. I always hated those things for the very danger they presented to the rear occupants who were basically trapped inside with no door and for the loss of storage area that they incurred. I have heard all of the arguments about how the rear seats can be folded into the floor to create more room but the bottom line is the weight is still there and it is occupying an area that can better be used for storage and cargo. And the 3rd row goes even further flying in the face of reason when you consider that the average size of the American family has shrunk to about 3.1 from 3.7 several years ago. Clearly the trend of ever more seats is in conflict with the direction the populace is headed.

I recently read that a major manufacturer is dropping the dreaded 3rd row seat in one of it's popular mid sized models for 2025. That is a step in the right direction and hopefully an indicator of things to come. If you need a bigger rig with more seats buy it, plenty are available but stop trying to put 10 pounds is a 5 pound sack. All of the safety shit in the world that runs the price of new vehicles up so high won't save your child if he is sitting with his head almost against the back glass and some oaf with one too many beers can't stop in time.
 
I have never been shy about disputing the mix of vehicles sold by the major manufacturers. I have seen so many gaffes, bad decisions and idiotic "innovations" over the years and wonder how the big companies keep shooting themselves in the foot after 125 years. I have only been around for 86 years but have seen far more major companies fail than exist today. And even when they do something right a fickle public can reject their efforts and pick something dumb instead. A good example of this is the minivan, the best configuration of a family vehicle yet invented and a far better road trip vehicle than anything else. Yet we all know about the ridicule it has received once the SUV became the latest thing. The minivan is less expensive to buy, less expensive to insure, more comfortable, drives better, gets better mileage and has more passenger space than anything but the most monstrous SUV's. Since I have owned both I am keenly aware of the differences and own what is essentially a SUV myself.

In an effort to close the gap between the functionality of the minivan and the less commodious SUV something was developed called 'the third row seat' meaning that you could now put people where the luggage was supposed to be. Even small vehicles went that route with small children being assigned to the very rear of the vehicle where their little bodies were to absorb the impact of a rear end collision. I always hated those things for the very danger they presented to the rear occupants who were basically trapped inside with no door and for the loss of storage area that they incurred. I have heard all of the arguments about how the rear seats can be folded into the floor to create more room but the bottom line is the weight is still there and it is occupying an area that can better be used for storage and cargo. And the 3rd row goes even further flying in the face of reason when you consider that the average size of the American family has shrunk to about 3.1 from 3.7 several years ago. Clearly the trend of ever more seats is in conflict with the direction the populace is headed.

I recently read that a major manufacturer is dropping the dreaded 3rd row seat in one of it's popular mid sized models for 2025. That is a step in the right direction and hopefully an indicator of things to come. If you need a bigger rig with more seats buy it, plenty are available but stop trying to put 10 pounds is a 5 pound sack. All of the safety shit in the world that runs the price of new vehicles up so high won't save your child if he is sitting with his head almost against the back glass and some oaf with one too many beers can't stop in time.
Remember the station wagons that had a seat facing backwards? Ahead of their times, of course no seat belts
 
the biggest continuing hole in the US lineup is a mid size van, i.e. Sienna, Odyssey, etc with Subaru ground clearance and either equally distributed AWD or 4x4 option...add easily removable rear seats, a utilitarian 'hose-out' interior, and an extended roof option, and it would sell like happy hour beer. The most reliable vehicle we've ever owned was an 08' Sienna that I flogged mercilessly for a decade without a single repair, just routine maintenance.
Meanwhile, there is a cadre of Sienna owners who have gone the Journey Offroad 3" lift route, see them frequently in the Bend area.

1733359341803.png
 
the biggest continuing hole in the US lineup is a mid size van, i.e. Sienna, Odyssey, etc with Subaru ground clearance and either equally distributed AWD or 4x4 option...add easily removable rear seats, a utilitarian 'hose-out' interior, and an extended roof option, and it would sell like happy hour beer. The most reliable vehicle we've ever owned was an 08' Sienna that I flogged mercilessly for a decade without a single repair, just routine maintenance.
Meanwhile, there is a cadre of Sienna owners who have gone the Journey Offroad 3" lift route, see them frequently in the Bend area.

View attachment 134777
Drool. I would love to have that, with a hybrid engine. Too bad I can't drop $90K in a vehicle right now. I'll be driving my new to me 2019 Forester for the next ten years (I hope).
 
the biggest continuing hole in the US lineup is a mid size van, i.e. Sienna, Odyssey, etc with Subaru ground clearance and either equally distributed AWD or 4x4 option...add easily removable rear seats, a utilitarian 'hose-out' interior, and an extended roof option, and it would sell like happy hour beer. The most reliable vehicle we've ever owned was an 08' Sienna that I flogged mercilessly for a decade without a single repair, just routine maintenance.
Meanwhile, there is a cadre of Sienna owners who have gone the Journey Offroad 3" lift route, see them frequently in the Bend area.

View attachment 134777
The nearest thing to a mid size camping van we have seen so far is the 2025 Dacia Sandman 4x4 van out of Romania. Dacia has been building competent reasonably priced 4x4's for a long time. If the Sandman is actually real and not a computer generated wet dream, it is a breakthrough vehicle unlike anything we have seen. I don't know for sure myself but it sure is a provocative concept.
 
The nearest thing to a mid size camping van we have seen so far is the 2025 Dacia Sandman 4x4 van out of Romania. Dacia has been building competent reasonably priced 4x4's for a long time. If the Sandman is actually real and not a computer generated wet dream, it is a breakthrough vehicle unlike anything we have seen. I don't know for sure myself but it sure is a provocative concept.
wow..

1733374813990.png
 
I have to say seat heaters are a nice addition. Especially after a cold day on the river or skiing.
Those have been around a long time though. I remember a summer road trip with my friend’s family in their mid 1980s Volvo 240 wagon, and turning on his dad’s seat warmer and watching him squirm and complain it was getting hot.
 
Remember the station wagons that had a seat facing backwards? Ahead of their times, of course no seat belts
Yes, ahead of their time. I flew in Air Force transports several times on deployments in support of Red Flag ACM (Air Combat Maneuvering like Navy "Top Gun") exercises, NORAD Interceptor live fire qualification & competition, and AWACS development. When they were not configured with sideways facing jump seats that I could curl up and go to sleep on, they had rear facing passenger seats that are supposed to be somewhat safer in hard landings and crashes. I believe Commercial airlines don't configure the safer rear facing seats because they don't think commercial passengers would like it.
 
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Bah, humbug, there is no perfect vehicle.

I started out with 11' camper on a F350. Then 18' trailer followed by a 21' 5th wheel, then 24' class C, then 32' class A followed by a 40' class A.

None of these met my needs obviously, especially since my needs kept changing.

The amount I spent on all of them combined was less than a new pickup these days.

If it was only for my needs, I would find a cabin nearby and drive to where I wanted to go; since I would be doing that anyways. When I retired I spent almost 2 months on the road,.a couple of days roughing it in my truck followed by a couple of days in a hotel or cabin. Worked out great. I plan to do the same thing in 2025. And it is a lot cheaper than a new vehicle.

If I bought something from Romania, and if I broke down let's say Montana, could you imagine getting a part from a foreign country with all the supply chain issues? No thank you!
 
Bah, humbug, there is no perfect vehicle.

I started out with 11' camper on a F350. Then 18' trailer followed by a 21' 5th wheel, then 24' class C, then 32' class A followed by a 40' class A.

None of these met my needs obviously, especially since my needs kept changing.

The amount I spent on all of them combined was less than a new pickup these days.

If it was only for my needs, I would find a cabin nearby and drive to where I wanted to go; since I would be doing that anyways. When I retired I spent almost 2 months on the road,.a couple of days roughing it in my truck followed by a couple of days in a hotel or cabin. Worked out great. I plan to do the same thing in 2025. And it is a lot cheaper than a new vehicle.

If I bought something from Romania, and if I broke down let's say Montana, could you imagine getting a part from a foreign country with all the supply chain issues? No thank you!
Relax. Dacia's have never been imported to the US.
 
Drool. I would love to have that, with a hybrid engine. Too I'm driving.bad I can't drop $90K in a vehicle right now. I'll be driving my new to me 2019 Forester for the next ten years (I hope).
my wife has a 2020 Forester, she loves it, thing is a billy goat in ice and snow. I installed front seat lifts from Desert Does It for some extra leg support of my long legs when
 
the biggest continuing hole in the US lineup is a mid size van, i.e. Sienna, Odyssey, etc with Subaru ground clearance and either equally distributed AWD or 4x4 option...add easily removable rear seats, a utilitarian 'hose-out' interior, and an extended roof option, and it would sell like happy hour beer. The most reliable vehicle we've ever owned was an 08' Sienna that I flogged mercilessly for a decade without a single repair, just routine maintenance.
Meanwhile, there is a cadre of Sienna owners who have gone the Journey Offroad 3" lift route, see them frequently in the Bend area.

View attachment 134777

Have you seen the new Outback? Doesn't have a third row, but it's getting bigger and blockier. Subaru is creeping in that direction, to many folks dismay.
 
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