NFR Neighbor's Lithium Battery Caused House Fire

[Tim L]

No expert here but I'm assuming it's an older battery/charger combo. I have 2 B&D 40v chargers that shut off at a certain temp. They have to cool down or, in some cases, be reset somehow before use can continue. Anyhow, I would guess newer equipment worth owning would have some basic idiotproofness like that. Either way, mine are in the basement shop in hot weather if they need to be on.

 

[Sam Roffe]

I decided to go cordless garden tools to get away from the dangers of having gasoline in the garage. But hearing about homes going up in flames because a lithium battery decides to self destruct sound just as or even more dangerous. Gasoline needs an ignition source? Lithium batteries are the ignition source?

 

[Old406Kid]

I fly LiPo powered rc planes. The rule of thumb with these batteries is to discharge them to a storage voltage of 3.7 to 3.8 volts/cell when not in use and to keep them in some sort of safe container. I use ammo boxes withe the rubber seal removed from the lid. Also, never leave them unattended when charging to full voltage which is around 4.2 volts/cell.
Here's an interesting video that tests some of the available storage options.

One company, Spektrum, has smart batteries that self discharge to storage voltage.
"Spektrum Smart batteries have a storage voltage setting that defines the voltage to which the battery will automatically discharge to when not in use. This feature is designed to help extend the battery's life and improve its performance. For example, the Spektrum Smart G2 LiPo battery automatically discharges to a storage voltage of 3.90V after 72 hours of inactivity. The user can also change the battery's Auto Storage settings to suit their preferences."

 

[krusty]

I fly LiPo powered rc planes. The rule of thumb with these batteries is to discharge them to a storage voltage of 3.7 to 3.8 volts/cell when not in use and to keep them in some sort of safe container. I use ammo boxes withe the rubber seal removed from the lid. Also, never leave them unattended when charging to full voltage which is around 4.2 volts/cell.
Here's an interesting video that tests some of the available storage options.

One company, Spektrum, has smart batteries that self discharge to storage voltage.
"Spektrum Smart batteries have a storage voltage setting that defines the voltage to which the battery will automatically discharge to when not in use. This feature is designed to help extend the battery's life and improve its performance. For example, the Spektrum Smart G2 LiPo battery automatically discharges to a storage voltage of 3.90V after 72 hours of inactivity. The user can also change the battery's Auto Storage settings to suit their preferences."

Good info.

You mention using ammo boxes with the SEAL REMOVED for safe storage...and I know you mean the STEEL ammo boxes (as shown).

The seal needs to be removed (as you no doubt know) because if a thermal runaway event occurs the violent generation of gasses from the reaction will turn the container into a bomb if they aren't vented.

Some mistakenly believe that keeping the battery in a sealed container doesn't allow sufficient oxygen to support combustion, but the problem with that approach is that during thermal runaway the lithium ion battery creates plenty of its own oxygen to support a violent level of combustion.

That's why commercial level Li-Ion storage containers always have gas venting designs.

 

[Old406Kid]

Yes, definitely steel and in my case stored at storage voltage in a safe area.

 

[krusty]

No expert here but I'm assuming it's an older battery/charger combo. I have 2 B&D 40v chargers that shut off at a certain temp. They have to cool down or, in some cases, be reset somehow before use can continue. Anyhow, I would guess newer equipment worth owning would have some basic idiotproofness like that. Either way, mine are in the basement shop in hot weather if they need to be on.

Many of the battery/charger systems do indeed have 'intelligent' systems that prevent charging if unsafe situations exist.

A problem may occur if people attempt to repair or use aftermarket chargers/batteries....or ones that have been 'rehabbed/renewed'.

On every Ryobi 18V battery there's a warning (in very fine print) that you must only use the specific model charger for that battery .....OR use their model P118 intelligent charger for ANY of their 18V batteries. I've got a number of non-P118 Ryobi chargers, but I simply only use the P118 charger.

I think there's quite a bit of inherent confusion since you can pretty much use ANY Ryobi 18V battery on ANY Ryobi tool, but they often provide a charger specific to a tool/battery combo...and it would be quite easy to plug a battery into the wrong charger model.

It's also important to remember that only about 50% of the Li-Ion battery fire incidents occur during charging.

 

[krusty]

I decided to go cordless garden tools to get away from the dangers of having gasoline in the garage. But hearing about homes going up in flames because a lithium battery decides to self destruct sound just as or even more dangerous. Gasoline needs an ignition source? Lithium batteries are the ignition source?

I think they're quite safe if mfg and NFPA recommendations are followed, but we've been lax about understanding their limitations...sometimes with severe consequences. Sorta like using watercraft without wearing a PFD.

Lithium-Ion Battery Safety

Lithium-ion batteries are found in the devices we use everyday, from cellphones and laptops to e-bikes and electric cars. Get safety tips to help prevent fires.

www.nfpa.org

I will say that I think the manufacturers have done a pretty shitty job of informing the consumer regarding lithium ion battery safety requirements (for obvious reasons). Even their websites tend to deeply bury the info.

 

[Pink Nighty]

Thermal runaway is no fucking joke friends! I vape, and until last summer used one if those big mods with removable lithium batteries. I was not safe about it, and carried spare batteries in my pocket.

One day, almost exactly a year ago, I won the stupid games stupid prize and my leg exploded like a road flare was in my pocket. I grabbed at it instinctively, torched my hand and ended up stripping off my pants in my restaurants kitchen and having servers pour water over my hand and thighs while i waited for EMTs.

I was out for about 5 weeks and thankfully didnt require grafts. I got to learn all about burns and how the body can heal, which was neat. The hand was fully functional 10 days after intense second degree burns over 70% of it. The thigh took forever to heal, but fully did.

Anyways, be careful with those things! Any exposure of that lithium to the outside environment and it's a wrap, it burns until the lithium is gone. There is no extinguishing it and its hotter than a welding torch.

 

[troutstalker]

Thermal runaway is no fucking joke friends! I vape, and until last summer used one if those big mods with removable lithium batteries. I was not safe about it, and carried spare batteries in my pocket.

One day, almost exactly a year ago, I won the stupid games stupid prize and my leg exploded like a road flare was in my pocket. I grabbed at it instinctively, torched my hand and ended up stripping off my pants in my restaurants kitchen and having servers pour water over my hand and thighs while i waited for EMTs.

I was out for about 5 weeks and thankfully didnt require grafts. I got to learn all about burns and how the body can heal, which was neat. The hand was fully functional 10 days after intense second degree burns over 70% of it. The thigh took forever to heal, but fully did.

Anyways, be careful with those things! Any exposure of that lithium to the outside environment and it's a wrap, it burns until the lithium is gone. There is no extinguishing it and its hotter than a welding torch.

I’m really sorry to hear that but glad that you’re okay.

 

[Flymph]

I decided to go cordless garden tools to get away from the dangers of having gasoline in the garage. But hearing about homes going up in flames because a lithium battery decides to self destruct sound just as or even more dangerous. Gasoline needs an ignition source? Lithium batteries are the ignition source?

Extreme heat is the ignition source!

 

[Peyton00]

Thermal runaway is no fucking joke friends! I vape, and until last summer used one if those big mods with removable lithium batteries. I was not safe about it, and carried spare batteries in my pocket.

One day, almost exactly a year ago, I won the stupid games stupid prize and my leg exploded like a road flare was in my pocket. I grabbed at it instinctively, torched my hand and ended up stripping off my pants in my restaurants kitchen and having servers pour water over my hand and thighs while i waited for EMTs.

I was out for about 5 weeks and thankfully didnt require grafts. I got to learn all about burns and how the body can heal, which was neat. The hand was fully functional 10 days after intense second degree burns over 70% of it. The thigh took forever to heal, but fully did.

Anyways, be careful with those things! Any exposure of that lithium to the outside environment and it's a wrap, it burns until the lithium is gone. There is no extinguishing it and its hotter than a welding torch.

At least, your lungs got a break.

 

[wanderingrichard]

I decided to go cordless garden tools to get away from the dangers of having gasoline in the garage. But hearing about homes going up in flames because a lithium battery decides to self destruct sound just as or even more dangerous. Gasoline needs an ignition source? Lithium batteries are the ignition source?

Yeah, the batteries , if improperly constructed, can short and ignite. Thermal runaway is a problem , especially in larger arrays , which is why you see many EV's with liquid cooling. (Dutch fire fighters have taken to dispatching cranes and 2500 gallon water tanks to EV fires, then soaking that puppy for upwards of a week to get it back to manageable levels) When I had my Fusion PHEV I always charged it outside, and more and more EV makers are advising just that for charging at home.

Follow the precautions usually included with current day battery powered tools and you should be OK. BUT, things like a missed QA/QC check do happen.