NFR Ukraine...Little Did I Know
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Rob Allen
Life of the Party
Time for the Russian people to show that greatness go into the Kremlin and get that bastard.
I would be very interested in where this point of view came from. Zelensky has been a politician for all of 2.5 years. He ran on an anticorruption platform and since his election has worked hard to institute reforms, though he has met obstruction from within:
Ukraine’s anti-corruption effort struggles, but soldiers on
Fighting corruption is a slog, but recent transparency initiatives have afforded Ukrainians an extraordinary look at the backgrounds and dealings of bureaucrats.
eurasianet.org
Perhaps a little reading from a relatively non-biased source is in order
Volodymyr Zelensky | Biography, Facts, Presidency, & Russian Invasion of Ukraine | Britannica
Volodymyr Zelensky, a former comedian turned politician, rose to become the President of Ukraine with his anti-corruption platform and unconventional approach to governance.
www.britannica.com
From what I have seen and read, he is far less corrupt than any of his predecessors, he has been in the streets, but yes, trying to stay safe (would we not want the same for the President of the US, ie, stay safe and lead? Remember President Bush on 9/11, do we begrudge the efforts taken to keep him safe? I don't).
Given what he is fighting, I cannot understand the effort here to besmirch him.
cheers
Sorry I offended you. Like I said a couple times last night, I'm not too sure why I thought now was the right time to bring up the ultimate injustice in this and any war, which is that while the figureheads do the talking and threatening, it's common people in the streets paying the price.
Zelensky stayed home, which is a far cry better than what the former Afghan leader did by his people. I think what's rubbing me wrong about him may be rooted in my own fears. He is doing everything he can to get NATO involved in the fighting, and that seems to be his entire strategy. As a simple matter of morality, I would like to see NATO answer that call, but I'm very concerned that Putin is not of stable mind and might be capable of doing the unthinkable if backed into a corner.
Delicate situation, for sure. I am hoping Putin will cave to economic pressure and back out, but that seems awfully optimistic given everything we've seen from him over the past couple decades....
I made a mistake...mostly in timing, but also in tone. I own it.I would be very interested in where this point of view came from. Zelensky has been a politician for all of 2.5 years. He ran on an anticorruption platform and since his election has worked hard to institute reforms, though he has met obstruction from within:
Ukraine’s anti-corruption effort struggles, but soldiers on
Fighting corruption is a slog, but recent transparency initiatives have afforded Ukrainians an extraordinary look at the backgrounds and dealings of bureaucrats.
Perhaps a little reading from a relatively non-biased source is in order
Volodymyr Zelensky | Biography, Facts, Presidency, & Russian Invasion of Ukraine | Britannica
Volodymyr Zelensky, a former comedian turned politician, rose to become the President of Ukraine with his anti-corruption platform and unconventional approach to governance.
From what I have seen and read, he is far less corrupt than any of his predecessors, he has been in the streets, but yes, trying to stay safe (would we not want the same for the President of the US, ie, stay safe and lead? Remember President Bush on 9/11, do we begrudge the efforts taken to keep him safe? I don't).
Given what he is fighting, I cannot understand the effort here to besmirch him.
cheers
I don't really think Zelensky is as bad as Putin.
Rob Allen
Life of the Party
Not offended at all. NATO should have gotten involved on day 1. The risk of nukes be damned.. Getting NATO involved militarily is Zekenskys only real option.. sooner or later the Huge Russian army will trample his country.
It's not as easy as you'd think when murder, imprisonment without trial, forced starvation, poisoning and humiliation of you and your family are normal tools of the government and industry. Remember government and industry are not separable in socialism, they act together.
Ask how an Oligarch became wealthy after 1991...they somehow came to solely own a factory or pipeline owned by the collective...how does that happen? I can attest it is not by negotiation across a table. Where do you put the money when there were no banks in Russia (there are today)? You find a neutral country who doesn't ask questions. Then they were able to profit from the sales of the factory or product. How does that work? Simple, you pay the government a share.
The most dangerous and powerful people in the world are in Moscow (and some still in Kiev). I haven't looked lately but the highest cost of living place in the world was inside the inner belt of Moscow...wealth drops exponentially as pass through the outer belts of Moscow (and to a lesser degree Kiev).
Ask yourself what major technological or marketing miracle did it take for a Russian to be rich enough to own the Chelsea FC, given that in 1990 everyone was equal.
I would agree...many of my brother's friends in Russia are dead or in prison...
Rob, did someone hijack your keyboard????
I cannot speak to it but there some here who can articulate the bond that develops in a unit under fire, if they choose to.
Even in the US, with the exception of deserter Bowe Bergdahl who became a political football under two rival administrations, desertion under enemy fire is grounds under the UCMJ for a firing squad. It's just not done!
To make a statement that those "kids" can drop their weapons and walk back to Russia is a total my little pony fantasy dreamt up by a civilian living in a country where men and women have fought and died to preserve freedom of speech.
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Rob Allen
Life of the Party
Never said or hinted that it would be easy. The right thing rarely is..
Capt Insano Emeritis
Legend
I was writing back and forth to my many hosts that aided me in my work in the USSR for years until politically it got weird again post soviet break up. The people i met were starved to know what life was like in America. The incredible generosity I received was so heartening. Putin has to go finally. My experience was 31 years ago yet I still see the faces of friends I made and the fear of uncertainty they lived with. There was a tendency for dark humor amongst them.
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My brother told me how many times he would visit someone and they would make him a meal, even though food was scarce...these were the times of bread lines. They would turn up the radio at the table where they sat so the men in the little black car outside that followed him wherever he went couldn't hear their conversation...
Rob Allen
Life of the Party
Then I say to the Ukrainians .. drop this Russian band of Brothers where they stand and send them back to Moscow in pieces..
Moscow invasion of Ukraine makes their military brotherhood meaningless.
It's a lot different when the world is complicit. It is unfair to ask people to fight the world. There seems to be some enlightenment but it only takes a few complicit countries for this to keep going.
The other aspect is our people need to learn this lesson and make sure our government never falls into this level of corruption.
In one of your earlier posts (that was deleted), you were wishing you were trained and in shape so you could go to Ukraine... seemed like you thought better of that idea and deleted your post...while it's always possible to serve in a non combat role and visa requirements have been suspended by Ukraine for those who wish to serve, it's hard to do the right thing, isn't it ?
Of course, it's always hard to do the right thing as you pointed out, but apparently it's easy to criticize others for not doing what you claim as the right thing for them to do.
Rob Allen
Life of the Party
There is no enlightenment. Humans and humam organizations operate in the same manner they always have. We are evil corrupt and self seeking. We close our eyes to things just as evil are this invasion on a daily basis.
I agree we need to learn this lesson here too because that level of corruption in knocking on our door.
Every war has been fought by young people wondering why old men sent them into danger and death. So much pointless suffering and destruction.
Old406Kid
Legend
True, I was just a dumb, underage MT kid with my biggest problem being who I could get to buy beer for me when I got drafted in 1968.
That said, fighting against an A-hole would be alot more preferable than fighting for one.
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Flymph
Life of the Party
"The risk of nukes be damned" Enjoy reading your posts but happy other people are making critical decisions that affect the planet.
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