NFR Ukraine...Little Did I Know

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Anyone else paying attention to the story about a pilot they are calling "the Ghost of Kyiv? "
Supposedly he shot down 6 Russian jets yesterday, making him the first Ace of the century. God only knows if the stories are true but I threw a Nicole on the grass for him today anyway.
 
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Salmo_g said:
I read 4 times in today's paper that Putin described Ukraine as an ". . . inalienable part of our own history, culture, and spiritual space." Of course I think that is just cover for wanting Ukraine directly under his thumb and control and access and ownership of all of Ukraine's many and varied resources. I don't think Putin will stop until he has what he wants. And even though NATO outnumbers Russia 3:1, I'm very skeptical that they will step up and send Russia packing from Ukraine. In part because that probably can't be done without directly counter-invading Russia to some degree. And if Putin seems irrational already, I think that would truly set him off his rocker and maybe start WWIII.
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The thing that bugs me is, why is he the only one capable of issuing demands?
 
Salmo_g said:
And even though NATO outnumbers Russia 3:1, I'm very skeptical that they will step up and send Russia packing from Ukraine. In part because that probably can't be done without directly counter-invading Russia to some degree. And if Putin seems irrational already, I think that would truly set him off his rocker and maybe start WWIII.
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Probably what he's counting on.

The vast majority of us can wax poetic all day long about what we presume to be both the outcome and what we (the US) should do....personally, I don't know, I'm neither a historian nor a tactical war general, which made this all the more relevant when one of my FB friends posted it today....it definitely gave me a chuckle in a super shitty time for a lot of people over there.

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Rob Allen said:
The thing that bugs me is, why is he the only one capable of issuing demands?
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I think because he is: 1. a megalomaniac; 2. owns half of Russia's wealth; 3. owns the key to the castle and all its power. He's not the only one capable of making demands, but he is backed up by a lot of horsepower and is irrational enough to use it. Most of the NATO nations are civilized Europeans, and polite, like Canadians, and think it would be mean to squish Putin like a bug. And they don't want the massive destruction that would accompany waging war with Russia.
 
Rob Allen said:
Anyone else paying attention to the story about a pilot they are calling "the Ghost of Kyiv? "
Supposedly he shot down 6 Russian jets yesterday, making him the first Ace of the century. God only knows if the stories are true but I threw a Nicole on the grass for him today anyway.
Click to expand...


I saw that as well. It's hard to determine what is credible and what isn't of course, but a cool story if true.

Reading about the Klitschko brothers also fascinstes me. Two men who are more than wealthy enough to escape danger, yet both are right there in the middle of things planning to pick up weapons and fight.
 
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The Russian ties to Ukraine are historically linked with the 'Baptism of the Rus', 988.
Russian Orthodox Church, look it up.
Putin uses the Church to further his goals.

Surprise.....
 
Mossback said:
Even if Russia prevails in this phase, then comes the long counterinsurgency phase. Installing a puppet government in a large country doesn't guarantee a peaceful, docile populace and the estimated 190,00 Russian troops isn't anywhere close to covering the landmass of Ukraine in a way that controls the people.
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It will be interesting to see how this plays out in that regard. Could end up similar to their involvement in Afghanistan. They were there for something like 10 years before going home.
SF
 
Mossback said:
The Russian ties to Ukraine are historically linked with the 'Baptism of the Rus', 988.
Russian Orthodox Church, look it up.
Putin uses the Church to further his goals.

Surprise.....
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whoa, someone using religion to further one's military agenda? that doesn't sound like anything I've heard before (multiple times)...🤔
 
Yeah....
Color me shocked.
 
Nick Clayton said:
I saw that as well. It's hard to determine what is credible and what isn't of course, but a cool story nonetheless

Reading about the Klitschko brothers also fascinstes me. Two men who are more than wealthy enough to escape danger, yet both are right there in the middle of things planning to pick up weapons and fight.
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like America used to be
 
Salmo_g said:
I think because he is: 1. a megalomaniac; 2. owns half of Russia's wealth; 3. owns the key to the castle and all its power. He's not the only one capable of making demands, but he is backed up by a lot of horsepower and is irrational enough to use it. Most of the NATO nations are civilized Europeans, and polite, like Canadians, and think it would be mean to squish Putin like a bug. And they don't want the massive destruction that would accompany waging war with Russia.
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Civilized seems to be overrated in some instances.. I guess I would call on those Russian protestors, rather than holding up signs maybe they should take Putin out..
 
Rob Allen said:
like America used to be
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Perhaps. But let's be honest, how many of us here have any clue what it's like to actually face the chance to pick up a gun and fight a foreign invader?

I'd love to say that when faced with a foreign invader actually entering my country that I would stand up and fight till the end, but if I'm perfectly honest I have no idea. In the grand scheme of things I've lived an awfully protected life and haven't had to endure things even remotely close to what those people are currently faced with.
 
Nick Clayton said:
I saw that as well. It's hard to determine what is credible and what isn't of course, but a cool story nonetheless

Reading about the Klitschko brothers also fascinstes me. Two men who are more than wealthy enough to escape danger, yet both are right there in the middle of things planning to pick up weapons and fight.
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I just saw the story about the young Ukrainian marine who willingly gave his life to blow up a bridge to slow the Russian advance into southern Ukraine yesterday. He knew it was a suicide mission but he stayed the course, blew the bridge and was killed in the explosion.

The Klitschko brothers don't surprise me at all. Tough bastards, very proud of their land and willing to die to defend it.

The Ukrainian government just issued an order preventing all civilian men between 18 and 60 from leaving the country, and to be ready to be pressed into immediate military service. If you look closely at some of the videos on many news channels you'll see women fighting alongside the men.

NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg reconfirmed NATO resolve to fight on the side of any NATO member attacked in any way by Russia. This includes cyber attacks. He also said he doesn't think Putin is going to stop with Ukraine. Putin wants all the countries that declared independence back under his rule.

This ain't no fucking video game.
 
Stonedfish said:
It will be interesting to see how this plays out in that regard. Could end up similar to their involvement in Afghanistan. They were there for something like 10 years before going home.
SF
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Terrain plays a big part in that. Mountainous areas are far easier to defend. That or jungle. Looks like much of the county is open agricultural land.
 
No reasonable way to stop the invasion from the outside. Its nice to see Ukraine putting up a good fight and winning some battles, but I doubt it will last long.

Then comes the long game. Counterinsurgency keeping things interesting while the sanctions take hold and Putin's backers feel the pain. Don't battle Putin, battle the men who make him powerful by taking their wealth and lifestyle away.
 
Nick Clayton said:
Perhaps. But let's be honest, how many of us here have any clue what it's like to actually face the chance to pick up a gun and fight a foreign invader?

I'd love to say that when faced with a foreign invader actually entering my country that I would stand up and fight till the end, but if I'm perfectly honest I have no idea. In the grand scheme of things I've lived an awfully protected life and haven't had to endure things even remotely close to what those people are currently faced with.
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This...

If you haven't been shot at, or had to shoot back to save your life it's pretty tough to say what you'd do in that situation.
Face it, most of us are old, slow moving targets with little or no military training, with a few exceptions.
Lol
 
Rob Allen said:
Anyone else paying attention to the story about a pilot they are calling "the Ghost of Kyiv? "
Supposedly he shot down 6 Russian jets yesterday, making him the first Ace of the century. God only knows if the stories are true but I threw a Nicole on the grass for him today anyway.
Click to expand...
That's crazy....even more-so if it's true, which I hope it is.
 
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Nick Clayton said:
Perhaps. But let's be honest, how many of us here have any clue what it's like to actually face the chance to pick up a gun and fight a foreign invader?

I'd love to say that when faced with a foreign invader actually entering my country that I would stand up and fight till the end, but if I'm perfectly honest I have no idea. In the grand scheme of things I've lived an awfully protected life and haven't had to endure things even remotely close to what those people are currently faced with.
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i was about to add at least I romanticize about America having been that way..
 
SilverFly said:
According to Snopes the video was faked with gaming software but the Ukrainian military did claim 5 Russian planes and a helicopter were downed.
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dare to dream....I guess.
 
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