NFR Ukraine...Little Did I Know

[Old406Kid]

yeah that was a real click-baity headline. I read it and then realized that she had likely simply been the victim of a nut job boyfriend, not silenced by the government.
-andy

Not to be a conspiracy theorist and I admittedly haven't checked the source but this seems coincidental to say the least.

Ex-Boyfriend Of Russian Instagram Influencer Ekaterina Karaglanova Admits To Her Murder

Ekaterina Karaglanova, a Russian Instagram influencer, was found dead in her Moscow apartment last month. Her ex-boyfriend has confessed to her murder.

www.refinery29.com

Could it be that Putin or his associates put these guys in an 'or if' situation to silence these outspoken girls?
I wonder what happened to the boyfriends?

Sorry for the thread drift.

 

[SurfnFish]

and yet another request to drop the personal attack b.s....

And deep breath for those who want to plunge into WW3. This invasion is only two weeks old, the previous administration wanted to pull out of NATO, and we are only now rebuilding our bridges.
And the geniuses in the Pentagon had switched training and focus from European battle front wars to fighting Afghan type insurgency conflicts, so they were totally unprepared...which is why 2,000 M1 tanks have been sitting parked in the desert for over a decade.

At it is, Germany is ramping up it's military force on a highly accelerated basis, which is going to absolutely give Russia the shits, and this is the most united NATO has been in decades....which still does not obviate the fact that it has been on a downhill slide, with poor communications between members, development of disparate weapon systems, and in some case complete neglect to their military, and made worse by a political shift in many of the NATO countries to a "us first, fuk the others' mentality...which in spite of this conflict remains the banner flag for many in our own country..

 

[Canuck from Kansas]

...

Hell there aren't even good men around to do nothing . Just a bunch of cowards thinking they have to avoid war at all costs.
I am deeply embarrassed by my government and NATO.

Not trying to pile on Rob, but to say that nothing is being done is an absurdity, it's just that what is being done is not what you think should be done.

From a very simplified primer:

• Several NATO nations have been sending weapons to Ukraine to help its defend itself against Russia.
• The US initially sent weapons $200m (£149m) to Ukraine, including Javelin anti-tank missiles and Stinger anti-aircraft missiles, and allowed other Nato countries to supply Ukraine with US-made weapons. It is now sending an extra $350m (£261m) in weapons including anti-tank missiles, anti-aircraft systems and body armour.
• The EU has said it will spend up to 450m euros (£376m) to fund the supply of weapons to Ukraine. It's the first time in its history the EU has helped provide arms for a warzone.
• Sweden is sending 5,000 anti-tank weapons, helmets, body armour and rations.
• Britain has sent 2,000 anti-tank missiles and says it will send more weapons in the future.
• Germany is sending 1,000 anti-tank weapons and 500 Stinger missiles. It has also dropped some restrictions on other countries sending German-made weapons to Ukraine.

What is Nato and which countries are in it?

The US is considering options for punishing Nato allies which it considers to have failed to offer support during the Iran war, according to a Pentagon memo seen by Reuters.

www.bbc.com

Not to mention sanctions, relief efforts, logistical and intelligence support, etc.

Also, please be careful of who you are calling a coward from behind your keyboard:

General Tod D. Wolters NATO's 19th Supreme Allied Commander Europe:

General Wolters fought in operations Desert Storm, Southern Watch, Iraqi Freedom and Enduring Freedom. He served in the Office of the Secretary of the Air Force as Legislative Liaison Director and in headquarters staff positions at U.S. Pacific Command, Headquarters U.S. Air Force and Air Force Space Command. Prior to commanding U.S. Air Forces in Europe and U.S. Air Forces Africa, General Wolters served as the Joint Staff Director for Operations. He is a combat-experienced command pilot with more than 5,000 flying hours in the F-15C, F-22, OV-10, T-38, and A-10 aircraft.

Supreme Allied Commander Europe (SACEUR)

General Tod D. Wolters

shape.nato.int

 

[Mossback]

Ukraine is taking volunteers. If you so ashamed why not pack up your bags and go do something- or is it just other people you want in harm’s way?

All hat no cattle I guess...

 

[DimeBrite]

Azov battalion, fighting in Mariupol. Gritty street fighting.

 

[Mossback]

Coalition building is harder than a lot of folks seem to think, I've mentioned this previously.

Also for the warmongering crowd, what are you personally willing to sacrifice, pay more for or go without in order for the US to prosecute a land war in Europe against a nuclear power?..asked this also, but no takers on the question so far.
Unsurprisingly....

 

[krusty]

All hat no cattle I guess...

Bonespurs?

 

[Dustin Chromers]

.

Coalition building is harder than a lot of folks seem to think, I've mentioned this previously.

Also for the warmongering crowd, what are you personally willing to sacrifice, pay more for or go without in order for the US to prosecute a land war in Europe against a nuclear power?..asked this also, but no takers on the question so far.
Unsurprisingly....

I'll field this one but I don't consider myself in the war mongering crowd. In fact I'm generally anti war to the point of near isolationist which I understand can be faulted on several fronts. I don't want anybody from here going to war on the ground in Europe unless there is direct threat to national security and I don't see this conflict as registering as that. The United States must refrain from being world policeman. That is not to say we cannot be helpful in other ways to allies short of boots on the ground. There's a big spectrum between nothing and full out troops in theater. And we can debate what that should be which is also fine.

As far as paying more and sacrifice? We are already paying lots more for gas and while we can debate the causes I would only hope that the idea of energy independence would seem more attractive to everyone in light of recent events and their effect.

 

[Mossback]

Interesting reporting from FT..

"On Wednesday,Financial Timesreported that Ukraine and Russia were actually making substantial progress toward an agreement to end the war. By any measure, the “15 point plan” described seems like an admission of defeat for Russia, with barely any effort to brush over their defeat.

The draft agreement would supposedly start with a ceasefire and a withdrawal of Russian forces. In exchange, Kyiv would “declare neutrality” and accept some limits on its armed forces. However, where Moscow went into the war demanding that Ukraine be disarmed, that no longer appears to be on the table. Instead Ukraine would keep its military, with unspecified “limits” on what might be added. The idea of neutrality has also been dialed way back to something that the Kremlin has described as “like Sweden.” Ukraine would reportedly declare that it’s not seeking to join NATO, but would be able to seek some form of protection agreement from the U.S. and European partners. Ukraine would not host foreign military forces, but would be able to call on this new alliance in a conflict. Which … seems very much like Ukraine joining NATO in all but name. In fact, for Ukraine, it may be better.
According to the Financial Times,

“The biggest sticking point remains Russia’s demand that Ukraine recognize its 2014 annexation of Crimea and the independence of two separatist statelets in the eastern Donbas border region.”

If that’s where the negotiations are standing, then the real question is will Russia get anything? Ukraine could easily agree to the mutual protection deal being proposed and the meaningless statement of neutrality that now seems to be the Moscow line. That they’re negotiating on whether Russia gets some kind of formal stamp on the areas it controlled at the outset of the invasion, is an amazing level of Not Winning."

FT is typically not a tabloid, or trolling for clicks with garbage headlines, and isnt a joke source.. Article is behind a pay wall, sof or most it'll be hard to read.
Don't know how well sourced or accurate this is, but pretty sure it's a few steps above @lezluthor.


Meanwhile,Putin sounds like he's going full Stalin at home, prepping for a 'purge'

 

[DimeBrite]

Helping to house and feed Ukrainian refugees is the biggest way to contribute in my opinion. If you travel over there,, you can join an aid agency in Poland or Romania instead of fighting. Putin is intentionally creating a refugee crisis to stress the Ukrainian government and NATO countries.

The Ukrainians have a clear understanding of Putin. They know they need a military victory to kick him out of their country permanently. 21 days of invasion, and Putin's losses are piling up with 100% of his assembled forces committed. Putin is paying contracts out to his various mercenary groups like Wagner (his version of Nazis). Russia will likely need to send in whatever reserve troops it has now that his war is dragging out. Putin is a bad liar, and any cease fire or peace deal should only be signed by Ukraine from a position of strength.

 

[Mossback]

...and this is the most united NATO has been in decades....

True
We have done an excellent job in coalition building here, even the Swiss signed on to crippling banking sanctions.
I think most overlook just how hard a lift this sort of stuff is.

 

[Dustin Chromers]

Interesting reporting from FT..

"On Wednesday,Financial Timesreported that Ukraine and Russia were actually making substantial progress toward an agreement to end the war. By any measure, the “15 point plan” described seems like an admission of defeat for Russia, with barely any effort to brush over their defeat.

The draft agreement would supposedly start with a ceasefire and a withdrawal of Russian forces. In exchange, Kyiv would “declare neutrality” and accept some limits on its armed forces. However, where Moscow went into the war demanding that Ukraine be disarmed, that no longer appears to be on the table. Instead Ukraine would keep its military, with unspecified “limits” on what might be added. The idea of neutrality has also been dialed way back to something that the Kremlin has described as “like Sweden.” Ukraine would reportedly declare that it’s not seeking to join NATO, but would be able to seek some form of protection agreement from the U.S. and European partners. Ukraine would not host foreign military forces, but would be able to call on this new alliance in a conflict. Which … seems very much like Ukraine joining NATO in all but name. In fact, for Ukraine, it may be better.
According to the Financial Times,


If that’s where the negotiations are standing, then the real question is will Russia get anything? Ukraine could easily agree to the mutual protection deal being proposed and the meaningless statement of neutrality that now seems to be the Moscow line. That they’re negotiating on whether Russia gets some kind of formal stamp on the areas it controlled at the outset of the invasion, is an amazing level of Not Winning."

FT is typically not a tabloid, or trolling for clicks with garbage headlines, and isnt a joke source.. Article is behind a pay wall, sof or most it'll be hard to read.
Don't know how well sourced or accurate this is, but pretty sure it's a few steps above @lezluthor.


Meanwhile,Putin sounds like he's going full Stalin at home, prepping for a 'purge'

Let's make it a true daily double Alex.

 

[Brute]

Just read a headline...

Russian model who criticized Putin found dead in suitcase..

All that is needed for evil to take over is for good men to do nothing..

Hell there aren't even good men around to do nothing . Just a bunch of cowards thinking they have to avoid war at all costs.
I am deeply embarrassed by my government and NATO.

Did you read the part where her ex boyfriend confessed to strangling her and putting her into a suitcase?…even Russia has nut jobs living amongst them, just like everywhere else…unfortunately

 

[Rob Allen]

Did you read the part where her ex boyfriend confessed to strangling her and putting her into a suitcase?…even Russia has nut jobs living amongst them, just like everywhere else…unfortunately

So we hunt down that bastard too and hang him next to Putin.

 

[SurfnFish]

There will be a negotiated cease fire at some point, as Russia can neither financially afford or win a prolonged ground war in Ukraine.
A ceasefire will not result in the lifting of Russian sanctions, however, as documentation of the war crime atrocities Putin/Russia committed against civilians is shown 24/7 around the world.
Media coverage of those war crimes will leak into Russia as they find themselves once again standing in USSR era breadlines amidst a cratered economy, as well as a growing understanding of how many of their young men died in the senseless war, and if that doesn't summon up their collective will to throw Putin aside, than they will be living the life they deserve.

 

[Rob Allen]

and yet another request to drop the personal attack b.s....

And deep breath for those who want to plunge into WW3. This invasion is only two weeks old, the previous administration wanted to pull out of NATO, and we are only now rebuilding our bridges.
And the geniuses in the Pentagon had switched training and focus from European battle front wars to fighting Afghan type insurgency conflicts, so they were totally unprepared...which is why 2,000 M1 tanks have been sitting parked in the desert for over a decade.

At it is, Germany is ramping up it's military force on a highly accelerated basis, which is going to absolutely give Russia the shits, and this is the most united NATO has been in decades....which still does not obviate the fact that it has been on a downhill slide, with poor communications between members, development of disparate weapon systems, and in some case complete neglect to their military, and made worse by a political shift in many of the NATO countries to a "us first, fuk the others' mentality...which in spite of this conflict remains the banner flag for many in our own country..

Putin plunged us into ww3 ready.. we are just sticking our heads in the sand while he takes land..

 

[Brute]

Apparently we are sending a hundred Switchblade “drones” to Ukraine. I had to look them up, since I never heard of them…technically, the are not a drone, but a “loitering munition “…pretty badass little device…

 

[Rob Allen]

There will be a negotiated cease fire at some point, as Russia can neither financially afford or win a prolonged ground war in Ukraine.
A ceasefire will not result in the lifting of Russian sanctions, however, as documentation of the war crime atrocities Putin/Russia committed against civilians is shown 24/7 around the world.
Media coverage of those war crimes will leak into Russia as they find themselves once again standing in USSR era breadlines amidst a cratered economy, as well as a growing understanding of how many of their young men died in the senseless war, and if that doesn't summon up their collective will to throw Putin aside, than they will be living the life they deserve.

I think that is optimistic to the extreme.
Russia will continue the attack on Ukraine indefinitely despite his inability to pay for it.. He will starve his own people to death and murder protestors if he has not already done so.
I see the death toll going into the 10s of millions. I hope Zelensky isn't so foolish as to think any Russian talks are done in any kind of good faith.

 

[Mingo]

One thing that has been really disappointing is seeing all the FB posts by people condoning Putin's barbarism because he claimed "Ukraine is a nazi country." And they bought his bullshit hook, line and sinker. Even if that were true, which it isn't, the fact that a significant number of people think it's perfectly okay to invade a country and kill their civilians and pummel their cities because PUTIN says it's "a nazi country" is truly terrifying. The stupidity of so many is staggering to me.

But it's always best to keep the eyes wide open and address the realities of Ukraine, the USA and any other country. No country is "all good" or "all bad." All nations have a dark side. Even Denmark.

Are there neo Nazis in Ukraine? Yep. Is Ukraine a nazi nation? Nope.

Don't take my word for it. Jewishunpacked.com, an Israeli site that monitors such things, reports that the main neo-Nazi group in Ukraine is the Azov movement, a group that grew out of the Azov Regiment in the war chaos of 2014. Jewishunpacked estimates Azov has around 10,000 members in a country of 40 million people (it used be more two weeks ago, but 3 million refugees have fled to escape death at Putin's hands). Azov is primarily characterized by aggressive Russophobia. Not surprising, given the long sad history of Ukrainian persecution at the hands of various Russian Czars and brutal dictators. They have no power in the government at all.

Jonathan Dekel-Chen, a history professor at Jerusalem's Hebrew University, said "In terms of the sort of constituent parts of Nazism, none of that is in play in Ukraine. Territorial ambitions, State sponsored terrorism, rampant anti semitism, bigotry, a dictatorship...none of those are in play. So this is just total fiction."

By way of comparison, the Southern Poverty Law Center estimates the KKK in the USA has up to 8,000 members, and there are many other neo Nazi and white nationalist groups in the USA. So the numbers of neo Nazis in Ukraine and the USA are fairly comparable. There may actually be way more in the USA, split among different groups. One difference is that the Azov battalion are actually deployed in combat right now, fighting for their country, instead of marching down a street in some American city acting like pathetic jackasses to anyone they deem as being "below" themselves.

This in NO WAY means I condone any actions of Azov or any other Neo Nazi group! I just find it rather odd that so many Americans support Putin, who just killed ten Ukrainian civilians who were in line to buy bread, because there are some neo Nazis in Ukraine. Does this mean, using their own logic, it is perfectly okay for Putin to invade the USA and kill our civilians any way he wants, since we have as many neo Nazis here?

So yeah. There are some neo Nazis in Ukraine, just like here. But Ukraine and the USA are not Nazi countries and anyone who says so is a liar.

The irony is that there is one person behaving like a Nazi in this brutal invasion and we all know who he is.

 

[Mossback]

The stupidity of so many is staggering to me.

Yup
Willful ignorance is now a badge of honor it seems.