NFR Ukraine...Little Did I Know

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Several networks and news agencies/sources are doing everything possible to ensure the videos/news they post or show on the news is accurate. Looking to see if it has been posted before, looking at geo-spatial info to verify it is from what is being depicted is accurate, and then interviewing people or sending employees/journalists out to verify accuracy. That is how to report news! Transparency and accuracy at its finest IMHO.

Now there is Meta, Facebook, TikTok and YouTube among others... These are global companies with enormous resources - both financial and people, skills. tools, AI, that affect what people see. They kowtow to countries and their politics so that they continue to make money. They are not interested in the truth and transparency, They block 50 accounts supposedly from Ukraine that are Russian-sponsored BOTS that shove misinformation out. Whooptido! They allow the Russian government to continue pushing out their BS within the country. Isn't government controlled TV and radio enough? Why allow misinformation to be provided to Russian people, or those around the world, via these information sources (Meta, FB, TikTok, TY, etc.) when they know for a fact it is not credible at all? Why not say "Under Review" until validated/verified? If a country/government wants to block an information source e.g. what China does, that is their choice and power. At least people of that country know it upfront. Why doesn't a global information source do the same thing for propaganda and lies from a country? The 'Charters' of these global platforms should include a statement of what they provide and support.

The Russian people do not understand what is happening in Ukraine. There would be a different response internally if the truth was known...
 
Canuck from Kansas said:
If it were up to me I would do this, if I were there I would do that - lotta big talk - well you can be there - fly to Poland, help in a camp, cross the border, take up arms if you are so full of certainty of what you would do in such and such circumstance.
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This

You are only able to claim the moral high ground when you have the courage of your convictions.

Otherwise, it's just empty rhetoric.

;)
 
Shad said:
Sorry I offended you. Like I said a couple times last night, I'm not too sure why I thought now was the right time to bring up the ultimate injustice in this and any war, which is that while the figureheads do the talking and threatening, it's common people in the streets paying the price.

Zelensky stayed home, which is a far cry better than what the former Afghan leader did by his people. I think what's rubbing me wrong about him may be rooted in my own fears. He is doing everything he can to get NATO involved in the fighting, and that seems to be his entire strategy. As a simple matter of morality, I would like to see NATO answer that call, but I'm very concerned that Putin is not of stable mind and might be capable of doing the unthinkable if backed into a corner.

Delicate situation, for sure. I am hoping Putin will cave to economic pressure and back out, but that seems awfully optimistic given everything we've seen from him over the past couple decades....
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He's doing anything and everything he can think of to help Ukraine's chances of survival. Anyone else would do the same. I've heard him ask for arms and ground fighters from other countries have been welcomed to join the fight but I haven't heard him (yet) ask another country to formally join the war. But that could change by the end of the day.
Old406Kid said:
I have to wonder how many Russian soldiers are there only because they fear for their lives or the lives of their family members at home
should they desert.
A weird thought, but I wonder what would happen if Ukraine offered them Asylum.
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apparently that offer was made. Any Russian soldier who surrendered was offered the equivalent of 6 months salary and asylum in Ukraine. Desperate times indeed...
Brute said:
My brother told me how many times he would visit someone and they would make him a meal, even though food was scarce...these were the times of bread lines. They would turn up the radio at the table where they sat so the men in the little black car outside that followed him wherever he went couldn't hear their conversation...
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I've found most Russians I've known to be awesome people. Warm and friendly. Same with most Japanese I've known. I try not to blame the people for the cruelty of their leaders.
SurfnFish said:
anyone really think if Putin is just handed Ukraine he would stop there and not keep rolling over the borders into countries formerly part of the Soviet Union? This fight is important on many levels, not the least that China is looking at the world response and realizing it's ongoing threat to take over Democratic Taiwan would likely meet the same response.
Whereas Russia will initially take over the big cities, the ratrio of Russian soldiers per civilians is 1 to 500. Once the resistance is properly armed with hardware from the west, the body bag count returning to Russia will be continual.
6,000 protestors arrested in Russia, and this is just the beginning.
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General Jens Stoltenberg of Norway, the NATO Secretary General, thinks Putin will just keep going if he takes Ukraine. Baltic states are on high alert and Sweden and Finland are considering joining NATO now too.

Russia just used cruise missiles to vaporize two government buildings in Ukraine, killing several people inside. If you're curious what that looks like, watch CNN. They keep showing it. The entire huge building disappears in the blink of an eye in a massive fireball. He's raining this fiery hell down on civilian targets in major European cities inside a sovereign independent country. in 2022. And more children are dying.

There is one clear cut villain here and he needs to be stopped. Putin issued fresh warnings today to any country he thinks poses a threat to him.

And the world is not only sick of him, but I think European leaders are going to call his bluff soon.
 
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Matt B said:
The other thing about this, Rob, is that it’s a slippery slope to make Russian citizens complicit just for being Russian. I think more empathy and restraint are needed. While I understand the urge to DO SOMETHING and STOP THIS SHIT NOW, it paves the way for violence against Russian citizens which would be wrong. Although, that somewhat aligns with some of your earlier posts in this thread that seemed to encourage rash actions that were frankly a little scary. I guess it’s all scary.
Say you’re sneaking up on a pod of Madison risers at first light. Do you toss out the caddis/stimmy you had on from last night or do you assess the situation, adjust, and react appropriately? (I know you’ll probably have a good response for this like “I would already know what to do and would have the #22 midge and #18 PMD already on” ;))
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If I am seeking up on a pod of Madison risers at first light. I already know they are going to be taking a size 18 black elk hair. I don't remember the scientific name off the top of my head.. I also know that they are going to be the days smallest fish. 12-15 inches. Usually skinny rainbows.
The more worthy opponents will be out at about 10 AM and will be rising until about two on a size 16 parachute PMD. However the crowds will be out by then so I'll go about 6 miles downriver to a less used spot these fish will be 15'18 inches. Then after dinner about 7 pm its time to hit the salmon flies til dark just above Lyons bridge. I know I'll get 5-6 fish in the 15-21 inch range in that last two hours.. in some ways it sucks to know what's going on.. the mystery is all over. On the other hand all the pressure is off I can just relax and fish.

History clearly shows us exactly what we need to do to " stop this shit" ain't no way putin is stopping with Ukraine so the question simply becomes what borders do you want to stop him in? I say the sooner the better to avoid as much bloodshed as possible.
 
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Brian Miller said:
😞 I'm sorry, but that term is thrown around too loosely. As bad as Putin is, he has not directed the slaughter of 11 million Jews and POWs.
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Yet.

Actually the similarities are too stark to ignore. A blitzkrieg type of invasion of a much weaker country that was unprovoked with the underlying threat to all of the neighboring nations. Hitler didn't kill 11 million Jews and POW's in the first two weeks of the war either. He ramped up a death industry over the years. Again we seem to be failing to learn the lessons of the past.
 
Flymph said:
@bennysbuddy Seriously, it's great to see your posts again. You are right in accusing some for sneaking in a political dig. "Self Included". Know that attacking strong personal beliefs and/or those who stand for those beliefs elicits a compelling urge to defend.
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I probably will not come right out with a political passion but i will certainly indicate an affirmative or allude in that direction. Apparently vagueness allows some to fill in blanks.
 
Brute said:
My wife and I support the World Central Kitchen started by chef Jose Andres…they are currently at the border of Poland & Ukraine feeding thousands of refugees fleeing Ukraine…food for thought if you are compelled to help in some way…
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Sounds good to me..
 
iveofione said:
Yet.

Actually the similarities are too stark to ignore. A blitzkrieg type of invasion of a much weaker country that was unprovoked with the underlying threat to all of the neighboring nations. Hitler didn't kill 11 million Jews and POW's in the first two weeks of the war either. He ramped up a death industry over the years. Again we seem to be failing to learn the lessons of the past.
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Exactly. And millions of Ukrainians HAVE been murdered and starved to death by Russia in the past 90 years. Every Ukrainian remembers that because they all grew up hearing about it from their families if they didn't directly experience it.

They consider that horrific bodycount a running tally, and Putin is now adding to it.

Russia: "Hello, Ukraine? It's us again. Remember how we killed your grandpa and raped your grandma? And how we starved all your aunts and uncles to death? And how we stole their land and killed all their farm animals so they had no way to feed themselves? Remember that?"
Ukraine: "Yes. We remember."
Russia: "And remember how we came back later, and took over again, and then killed your dad and raped your mother? And made all your aunts and uncles work for starvation wages in our factories? And how we beat them senseless when they tried to speak Ukrainian or practice their religion secretly in their basements?"
Ukraine: "Yes. We remember."
Russia: "Those were great days, weren't they? We really didn't like it when you left our warm embrace thirty years ago. We didn't like it at all when you decided to hold elections and behave democratically. We know what is best for you...and we have decided you are part of our family. And we think we should be reunited. So we're coming to reunite you with us. And if you resist, we are going to kill you too."

The world has a choice. Stand by and watch it happen again, or do something bold to stop it.
 
Brute said:
My wife and I support the World Central Kitchen started by chef Jose Andres…they are currently at the border of Poland & Ukraine feeding thousands of refugees fleeing Ukraine…food for thought if you are compelled to help in some way…
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He is amazing. I’ll look into it.
 
The Wall Street Journal: Biden Speaks to Ukraine's Volodymyr Zelensky.
www.wsj.com

Biden Speaks to Ukraine's Volodymyr Zelensky

President Biden spoke Tuesday with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky for more than 30 minutes, the White House said. Details on the phone call are expected to be released later in the day. On Twitter, Mr. Zelensky said he had just spoken to Mr. Biden: “The American leadership on anti-Russian
www.wsj.com www.wsj.com
 
Shad said:
Sorry I offended you. Like I said a couple times last night, I'm not too sure why I thought now was the right time to bring up the ultimate injustice in this and any war, which is that while the figureheads do the talking and threatening, it's common people in the streets paying the price.
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Shad said:
I would like to see NATO answer that call, but I'm very concerned that Putin is not of stable mind and might be capable of doing the unthinkable if backed into a corner.
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If you were addressing me, I was not offended. I was confused and not wanting the thread to be locked down.

In regards to your second comment. I actually have this exact same concern.
 
wanderingrichard said:
My noon time news feed:


Salt Lake Tribune: Paul Krugman: Laundered money could be the key to Putin's downfall.
www.sltrib.com

Paul Krugman: Laundered money could be the key to Putin’s downfall

Paul Krugman writes that laundered money could be the key to Putin’s downfall
www.sltrib.com www.sltrib.com

This partly answers the question of how one becomes a rich oligarch immediately after a socialist state collapsed...
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Another interesting Krugman article....
www.nytimes.com

Opinion | Russia Is a Potemkin Superpower (Published 2022)

The Ukraine war has revealed the Putin regime’s true weakness.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com
 
Scottybs said:
Doesn’t this frighten you? Putain using this as propaganda for WWIII against the west? Germans economy was shattered and that was grounds for a costly adventure. Note: I don’t disagree with economic strikes at all, and quite frankly, I’ve never been a fan of the Rodina, but remember the potential unintended consequences.
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YES
this is a frightening situation where Putin has no endgame or off-ramp from his original plans
And his original intended plans did not end w Ukraine.

I don’t think he needs provocation or propaganda.
He will act willfully with or without it. j
 
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