Slow Flex Graphite Rods

I believe the Sage Circa was built to imitate slow fiberglass yet recover quickly with the konnectic technology employed in it. Very light, thin in construction, and deep flexing.

 
It sure seems that graphite rods became stiffer and stiffer over time. I have some older rods from Orvis (one of my favorites) and Winston (another of my favorites) and they did have a much slower action. Somewhere along the way somebody at the graphite rod companies decided that we need to cast through brick walls so they started making rods accordingly.
 
Interesting how history repeats itself. From Huck Finn sticks, to cane poles, to split bamboo, to fiberglass, to graphite. Anyone have a boron fly rod? Was a thing back in the late 70's early 80's. Talk about slow action! I've never been a rod whore, but still have every rod I've purchased over 50 yrs. I haven't broke out any glass rods that I own to cast since I could afford graphite. Looks like something to try again. I do love my Sage 389 LL Graphite III. I have a couple of fiberglass Fenwick's and an old Quick Finessa 6wt I know nothing about, but caught a lot of Kokanee with it, still fishn American Lake back in the early 80's. That's the one I'll try first. Fun fun fun! Thanks for bringing it up.
 
I made a 8’-4# from a blank bought from the long gone Anglers Workshop, down in Woodland. It’s an IM6 graphite blank. I’ve owned and built many rods, but it is by far my favorite rod. It got me on the path to using only moderate flex rods. My main rods are also only 2-piece. I hate fooling around with extra ferrules. Surprisingly, the Iconoglass rods from NFC feel a lot like my favorite. I just wish they had a better selection of 3 and 4# glass rods. The Rainshadow Unity blanks, their least expensive fly rod, are also a great feeling IM6 rod..

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GAT said:
It sure seems that graphite rods became stiffer and stiffer over time. I have some older rods from Orvis (one of my favorites) and Winston (another of my favorites) and they did have a much slower action. Somewhere along the way somebody at the graphite rod companies decided that we need to cast through brick walls so they started making rods accordingly.
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IM6 rods were/are great. Blame it on Loomis who was the first to introduce stiffer rods ---> the IMX. It has been a race to stiffest broomstick ever since then...
 
I've got g loomis 10' 3wt IMX. Absolute buggy whip. Can easily handle bigger fish on 2lb test ultragreen. Flexes all the way to the cork. Not recommended for casting longer leaders in wind. Got it in the 90's.
 
Back in the 90's early 00's the St. Croix Imperial and Avid both had quite a bit of flex and bent deep into the blank. Both were nice casting rods. The green rod called the legend or elite, I can't remember the exact name, was the stiff one of the line up back then.
 
saying that all IM6 rods are great is like saying all glass rods have floppy tips. most, some, a few, several, etc....would be better descriptors. Just saying.
 
fatbillybob said:
That's what I instantly was thinking. Try and fine an old Winston. I've been fishing those for trout since new purchases in the 80's and just had a banner day on the Yuba with an old one.
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The old Winston IM6 rods varied a lot. Most of the 9’ trout rods were pretty soft. The 8’ rods were comparatively quick, not what I’d recommend for someone wanting a true moderate action

Jerry Siem worked for Winston and brought his rod design to Sage, and the same thing happened with the LL series. The 9’ rods were quite a bit softer than the 8’6” models.
 
SSPey said:
The old Winston IM6 rods varied a lot. Most of the 9’ trout rods were pretty soft. The 8’ rods were comparatively quick, not what I’d recommend for someone wanting a true moderate action

Jerry Siem worked for Winston and brought his rod design to Sage, and the same thing happened with the LL series. The 9’ rods were quite a bit softer than the 8’6” models.
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And the 8’9” were sublime !!!!
 
@clarkman , @SSPey and @Porter2 all bring up very good points for sure. Part of the reason why we discuss our own experiences.

"Back in the day" IM6 was based on the fabric utilized and the epoxies available at the time. It provided information to the consumer more about the rod and 'action'. Now it is not related to material and epoxies but more of a marketing ploy.

Loomis rolled a lot of blanks for others to their specifications including Winston, L.L.Bean and Powell. Each were to their specifications and tapers. Each has their own 'feel'. I have fished all of them. I prefer Loomis with a very close second with Winston. The ability to feel the rod load and unload, the subtle pause of a nymph or streamer, the protection of the tippet, the ability to bring a fish to hand is why I luv Loomis. The sweet spot for Loomis rods is IMHO 5wt and 6wt in 9'. A 4wt in 8.5' and 7 wt. in 9'6" to 10' are wonderful too. Do they cast a 100'? Probably not. Not my style ---> especially by me...

My Loomis 9"- 5 wt. rods have brought to hand 24"+ catfish and 30" trout. Some large SMB and a few Carp. I do not fish for smaller fish whether perch, crappie nor dinkers although I have caught lots of them.

Find a rod that fits your style and skills/capabilities. Use it learn what it can do, what you want it to do, and what you want to enjoy.

Fish on...
 
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Wetswinger said:
I made a 8’-4# from a blank bought from the long gone Anglers Workshop, down in Woodland.
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Did the same, popped in there after returning a broken Lami for exchange.

Look on the counter guys face was priceless when he asked me what I was after.

Said I'm looking for the cheapest 5 weight blank you have. He directed me to a blue Batson 4 PC blank in a mod action that actually turned out pretty good.
 
SSPey said:
The old Winston IM6 rods varied a lot. Most of the 9’ trout rods were pretty soft. The 8’ rods were comparatively quick, not what I’d recommend for someone wanting a true moderate action

Jerry Siem worked for Winston and brought his rod design to Sage, and the same thing happened with the LL series. The 9’ rods were quite a bit softer than the 8’6” models.
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Yeah you are kinda right about that. I have several IM6 winstons in 9 and shorter. I thought the shorter faster feel was more due to the multi-piece design having more influence the shorter the rod. But still you can't compare the slowness of even a 40y/o short IM6 rod to todays fast action graphite rods.
 
RCF said:
@clarkman , @SSPey and @Porter2 all bring up very good points for sure. Part of the reason why we discuss our own experiences.

"Back in the day" IM6 was based on the fabric utilized and the epoxies available at the time. It provided information to the consumer more about the rod and 'action'. Now it is not related to material and epoxies but more of a marketing ploy.

Loomis rolled a lot of blanks for others to their specifications including Winston, L.L.Bean and Powell. Each were to their specifications and tapers. Each has their own 'feel'. I have fished all of them. I prefer Loomis with a very close second with Winston. The ability to feel the rod load and unload, the subtle pause of a nymph or streamer, the protection of the tippet, the ability to bring a fish to hand is why I luv Loomis. The sweet spot for Loomis rods is IMHO 5wt and 6wt in 9'. A 4wt in 8.5' and 7 wt. in 9'6" to 10' are wonderful too. Do they cast a 100'? Probably not. Not my style ---> especially by me...

My Loomis 9"- 5 wt. rods have brought to hand 24"+ catfish and 30" trout. Some large SMB and a few Carp. I do not fish for smaller fish whether perch, crappie nor dinkers although I have caught lots of them.

Find a rod that fits your style and skills/capabilities. Use it learn what it can do, what you want it to do, and what you want to enjoy.

Fish on...
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I think you're giving me too much credit. 😆

I don't know anything about rod design, etc...which @SSPey went into some detail about (thanks for that!)

I just know what I've observed with rods I have owned...the technical stuff is a bit outside of my wheelhouse.
 
I’m no expert but my experience with rods slow and fast has made me realize how much the tip section matters. Soft tip-Stiff tip is a range.

I’ve cast some soft rods that only flex in the upper half and some soft rods that flex all the way into the handle. And of course the opposite can be true.

In my experience most fiber glass rods have a soft tip so you can’t push into it at the apex of your casting energy or it buckles. I’m sure there are fiberglass rods with more density near the tip to alleviate this.

So my point is that rod design factors into this as well, it’s not just material. I think most modern rods have a stiff butt section and a stiff tip section and I think what a lot of anglers want is a stiff butt with a soft tip.

Anyway, commence with your jokes boys!
 
This might be for a new thread at some point, but I’ve been interested in the early transition to graphite for a while. I inherited an unmarked rod that I eventually decided was a prototype ‘generation zero’ Fenwick HMG, which got me hooked. Lots of cool lore from that era.

I think the early Fenwick blanks (from Grizzly, I believe) went through a couple of design shifts from ‘74 to ‘77, each time becoming ‘softer’ and more fiberglass-like. My take is that this had a few drivers, including broken rods and broken tippets. It also coincided with corporate changes at Fenwick.

All of which is to say that skilled designers have maybe been ‘taming’ graphite for over 50 years. The first rods were so different from fiberglass — and cane — that most people didn’t know what to do with them. The rods got softer and more durable and very quickly became the dominant technology in fishing. Some of those softer rods (like the early Winstons) remain highly prized for the right applications. And they are easier to cast for most of us, especially at ~40’ (where most of the trout live.)
 
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