Simms Disappointment

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Have a pair of their flyweight waders I purchased new. Have already sent them in once as both legs complety failed resulting in boots full of water after 4 hours of fishing.

They were returned and fished ok for 2 light days on the river. Last trip out #3 after repair both my socks were quite damp after fishing 5 hours.

So there going in again, the point of failure looks to be the bootie to main wader leg connection

Anyone else having these issues?
 
Grundens has filled Simms share of the market quite nicely.
In some categories. I also think Skwala is the other big one people are underestimating. Then Orvis, Dryft and others in the wader category. But in general, whatever Simms used to be the best at, there are several options now that are far more worth the money.
 
Have a pair of their flyweight waders I purchased new. Have already sent them in once as both legs complety failed resulting in boots full of water after 4 hours of fishing.

They were returned and fished ok for 2 light days on the river. Last trip out #3 after repair both my socks were quite damp after fishing 5 hours.

So there going in again, the point of failure looks to be the bootie to main wader leg connection

Anyone else having these issues?
Yes, unfortunately I have had the same experience. It seems to be the bootie to wader connection that is typically the issue. My next pair of waders will be Skwala or Grunden. Almost all of my guide buddies are wearing Skwala.
 
My 2nd pair of the affordable Simms Riffle, the ones they made specifically for Cabelas, is leaking in the crotch just like the 1st pair did. The 1st pair started leaking in less than a season. This 2nd pair started after a pretty easy season. I'm done as well.

I'll be looking for a new lightweight wader before next summer and it won't be Simms.
 
You would think that their marketing/social media teams would pay a little attention to these sites…
Even if they did, it wouldn't matter much with how private equity works. They want to cheapen product as much as possible to make profit number go up so it looks good in a portfolio when they sell again. That's all they care about.
 
Talked to a guide while fishing on Saturday. His rig has always been noticeable cause it had a big Simms logo on the topper windows. The Simms logo was gone and had a big Adamsbuilt logo on the side of his rig now. Talked to him for a few and he said Simms sent him the new G4's with a 'waterproof' pocket before they came out. Said he put his iPhone in it the first time out and it leaked and ruined it. He said Simms sent him a check to cover the phone, but the way they were doing everyone rubbed him the wrong way so he ended that relationship.
 
Even if they did, it wouldn't matter much with how private equity works. They want to cheapen product as much as possible to make profit number go up so it looks good in a portfolio when they sell again. That's all they care about.
PE(s) usually hold onto and sell in a 5-7 year time frame…

It’s about the profits.
 
A decent article but I found it a bit tough to read and the point they were trying to make got lost in there somewhere. At least for me. I did the lazy thing after reading and had the computer machine summarize it a bit for those who don't read the entire article:


The basic idea is that a company can spend decades building a reputation for making good stuff, and then new ownership comes along and basically cashes in that reputation. They cut material quality, outsource manufacturing, weaken warranties, make products harder to repair, raise prices, etc., while people keep buying because the brand name still means “quality” in their heads.

It works because reputation lags behind reality. If you only buy a tool, appliance, mattress, whatever every 5-10 years, it can take a long time for everyone to realize the current product isn't the same thing that earned the brand its reputation.

Some of the common tactics the article talks about are:

  • Buying trusted brands and slapping the name on cheaper products
  • One company owning a bunch of supposedly competing brands
  • Quietly using cheaper materials/components
  • Making warranties sound great but filling them with exclusions
  • Designing products to be difficult or uneconomical to repair
  • Buying companies, loading them with debt, and extracting cash
  • Spending heavily on marketing while cutting the actual product
The big takeaway is that the logo on the box doesn't necessarily tell you much anymore. For expensive stuff, it's worth looking at who currently owns the brand, where/how it's being made, whether ownership recently changed, and whether the reputation you're relying on was actually earned by the current version of the company.

Basically: somebody spends 40 years building a trusted brand, then somebody else buys it and spends 5 years converting that trust into money.
 
Very few things aren't made in china even with brand names like simms or north face stuck on there. The brand name can up the quality with the chinese if they want. Sometimes they do and sometimes they don't.

Amazon and costco are brutal on their suppliers because they have so much distribution and pricing power. That's why return polices seem to always favor the consumer. China product suppliers know this and can't afford massive returns. Some returns yes but on balance suppliers have to make a profit. Chinese waders on Amazon work because the vendors can't afford for them not to work. I have had 3 sets and each pair have lasted about 3 years and this 3rd set is on year 4 seeing 2-3x/week outings in the surf. The last set were the most expensive just under $100. If they fail fast just initiate a return.

I have had old simms guide waders and silver labels from orvis and they all eventually leak. Spending 3x more does not mean they last 3x as long.
 
A decent article but I found it a bit tough to read and the point they were trying to make got lost in there somewhere. At least for me. I did the lazy thing after reading and had the computer machine summarize it a bit for those who don't read the entire article:
The initial concept of "enshittification" was coined by Cory Doctorow in reference to online platforms/SaaS purposeful worsening of their products in the service of more profit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enshittification

I, and others, tend to think that it also applies to companies that operate in the non-virtual world. What happens after PE gobbles up a brand is just a very easy way to see it happen (usually quickly). The linked article is indeed more than a little rambling and long, but it does a decent job of giving examples that were more relevant to this discussion. The wikipedia article has plenty of better examples, and likely easier reading, but they are all about online-based companies.
 
The initial concept of "enshittification" was coined by Cory Doctorow in reference to online platforms/SaaS purposeful worsening of their products in the service of more profit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enshittification

I, and others, tend to think that it also applies to companies that operate in the non-virtual world. What happens after PE gobbles up a brand is just a very easy way to see it happen (usually quickly). The linked article is indeed more than a little rambling and long, but it did a decent job of giving examples that were more relevant to this discussion. The wikipedia article has plenty of better examples, and likely easier reading, but they are all about online-based companies.
I think the experience with many here with an old forum is a good example. While not technically PE, the business model and overall process is essentially the same or similar.
 
Years ago found out fast the G3s weren't built for "stillwater vigor." Thereafter held it to their ball caps 😃
 
Even if they did, it wouldn't matter much with how private equity works. They want to cheapen product as much as possible to make profit number go up so it looks good in a portfolio when they sell again. That's all they care about.
Hey no argument from me, in my line of work traveling across the globe and when fly fishing comes up, I am very vocal about my poor experience with product support from Far Bank.
 
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