Simms Bought for $192 Million

dflett68 said:
1. quality has nothing to do with location
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I guess you don't read customer complaints about product quality after a company moves manufacturing offshore compared to quality before the move. Even I've seen it in power tools. It's a real issue.
 
dflett68 said:
No, I don't. I'm simply saying it's a myth to blame poor quality on cheap labor. Simms' commitment to quality will determine the quality of their product regardless of where it is produced. If they want the quality to stay at the same level it has always been, they can get that offshore. If they aren't committed to the same level of quality - it can go down just as fast in Montana as it could in China.
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Unfortunately perception often prevails over reality. Hardy discovered this when they moved production out of the country.
 
dflett68 said:
No, I don't. I'm simply saying it's a myth to blame poor quality on cheap labor. Simms' commitment to quality will determine the quality of their product regardless of where it is produced. If they want the quality to stay at the same level it has always been, they can get that offshore. If they aren't committed to the same level of quality - it can go down just as fast in Montana as it could in China.
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It's not a myth and it is by no means just perception. Simms may remain committed to quality but they won't be there to inspect every production lot coming off the line more than any other firm who heads offshore staffs its own quality control team in remote facilities. You sound like the Chinese government economist on CNN a few years ago who kept repeating that U.S. consumers would see better quality goods if everyone moved manufacturing to China. Hasn't happened yet.

Economics sets in. Labors cost go up, firms are under highly competitive contracts, corners get cut. Some are almost imperceptible; some can be quite obvious.
 
_WW_ said:
Unfortunately perception often prevails over reality. Hardy discovered this when they moved production out of the country.
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Alternate reality: my friend tripped at the river and destroyed a $1K+ English Bougle. So I like my Korean Hardys and the real ones can stay in the safe. They are simple design, it’s not hard to outsource it and get equal use.
 
HauntedByWaters said:
Alternate reality: my friend tripped at the river and destroyed a $1K+ English Bougle. So I like my Korean Hardys and the real ones can stay in the safe. They are simple design, it’s not hard to outsource it and get equal use.
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I've got a Hardy made in england and one made in korea - I can't notice a difference in quality. Aside from knowing what I paid for them.....
I'm sure someone somewhere could probably point out a thing or two, but they both sound fucking rad when a fish takes line, so I'm happy with both.
 
dflett68 said:
obviously for lots of people, where something is made, and who made it, deeply informs their idea of quality. but that's often rooted in feelings about people and culture, not objective testing of the materials, processes, or products in question.
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I'm reluctantly replying because it requires careful tip toeing around that race baiting. I'm responding because I think you're missing the point here that others are making.

In fly fishing gear there is often a massive difference in quality based on who made it, far more so than other industries. Obviously, who made it correlates to where it was made. There are a number of local rod and reel makers that produce products of a much higher quality than mass produced products made elsewhere. I'd even include modern Hardy's in the inferior category, both the made in England and made in Korea ones. Plenty of locally made options that are of superior quality for similar price points. Of course, there are also local rod and reel makers who's products are inferior to those. None of that is rooted with feelings about people or culture.
 
GOTY said:
In fly fishing gear there is often a massive difference in quality based on who made it, far more so than other industries.
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Really? Maybe I'm slow on the uptake here, but I haven't seen how this follows. i.e., Simms makes good waders in the U.S.; Patagonia makes good waders sourced offshore. Some rods made in the U.S. (Sage, Loomis, Scott) are good, but not inherently better than some sourced offshore (Beulah, Echo, Redington - certain models anyway). I guess I need some clear and cogent examples to understand the massive difference in quality you refer to.
 
Salmo_g said:
Really? Maybe I'm slow on the uptake here, but I haven't seen how this follows. i.e., Simms makes good waders in the U.S.; Patagonia makes good waders sourced offshore. Some rods made in the U.S. (Sage, Loomis, Scott) are good, but not inherently better than some sourced offshore (Beulah, Echo, Redington - certain models anyway). I guess I need some clear and cogent examples to understand the massive difference in quality you refer to.
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A simple example would be a farlex vs one of the current version Hardy's. The difference in quality, durability, tolerances, etc is huge. Took all of 2 small a run steelhead to blow up my "new" perfect. I was on day 1 of a 5 day trip with a free spooling hardy centerpin reel. Replaced the check, problem repeated itself, sold it, bought a farlex, and haven't looked back. Meanwhile folks have fished old Hardy reels for over a hundred years without any issue. The new stuff just isn't the same anymore unfortunately. I want an old one bad!!

Fully agree with you on rods. Meiser makes incredible rods with sourced blanks.
 
dflett68 said:
it's all good. the point seems to be getting lost a little, i'll point back to my original assertions, "it is a myth to blame poor quality on cheap labor." and "quality has nothing to do with location."

i don't disagree that consumers are noticing real differences in quality between offshore and premium domestic gear. the products you speak of aren't inferior because of where they were produced - that's a coincidence that is being misconstrued as a cause. they're designed and intended to be inferior as a matter of market strategy. to me, from a business perspective, the reasons for that are obvious and the race-baiting accusation is a great deal more contentious than i want to get involved with. not my intention at all.

much of what's made for mass IS less than top quality cause mass consumers tolerate it so brands design for it and enjoy the reduced cost of it. but for the manufacturer and the company contracting them - that's a strategy. they aren't asking for top quality but settling for less.

we're all using products every day that we think of as premium in their industry which are produced offshore for brands that are committed to quality, demand quality, and get quality.
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Makes sense, I get what you're saying 👍
 
There is off shoring and than there is off shoring...Patagonia having clothing built in Viet Nam factories where they have strict quality and employee standards baked into the contract vs lowest bid gets a fulfillment contract in China.
Friends wife worked at Patagonia for decades in the quality control department...she said it was next to impossible to find manufacturers in the US that could fabricate their clothes in the quantity they required, much less compete on price. How many folks do we know that would like to sew on a prodution line?
 
Czech quality control coming to Simms products.
 
BriGuy said:
Yes, please use the terms "Synergy", "Leverage", "Pivot", and "Robust" in a sentence.
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I need to leverage my synergy with the other Seahawk fans here, and pivot to trolling Rams fans in a more robust manner.
:)

Am I hired ?
 
So...what will happen with Simms in Bozeman...destination center???;)
 
If you read the press release, you will note that Simms has been retained by Vista, and Vista is reorganizing at the corporate level.
 
Just bought one of the last of the G3 vests, which I think are the best on the market (although discontinued). May be the last Simms purchase. My wife was just saying today that I have a lot of stuff that says "Simms" on it. :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 
Simms has been more important to the industry than whatever its future status might be. We are lucky to have so many good and high quality products available for out little niche hobby.

Early in my fly fishing endeavor the only decent rain coat was Helly Hanson. It still keeps the rain out and all the sauna-like sweat bath in. The choice in waders was limited to Hodgeman, Marathon, and Seal Dri. And none of those was ever a very good fit. And the only good wading boot was Russell, made of leather and wool felt sourced from the supplier to Steinway pianos, and took forever and a day to dry out. Then Weinbrenner came on the scene, and those were wonderful. And finally Simms and all the rest. We got it plush and easy friends.
 
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