Reasonable.
Rod repair costs
- Thread starter Stonedfish
- Start date
I don't know all the details of why they are charging that price for rods that retail for less, but the entire industry had to change because of rising costs and increased abuse of these programs. It essentially became a way to trade in your rod for a new model for a couple bucks and people figured that out. It was completely unsustainable at any level.
I totally get it from both sides. But if we all want rod companies and fly shops to stick around, then the unlimited "no questions asked" replacements for pennies on the dollar have to be a thing of the past. The alternative is increasing the initial rod costs to the consumer substantially.
I get rod companies were likely being raked over the coals with the no questions asked warranties of the past. You can see where folks could take advantage of those policies. That said, I hope this leads to rod makers reconsidering how they balance durability with performance when it comes to rod design. I have had rods in for repair 6 times over the last 3 years and have two that need to go in now. None were broken in a car door, etc. All are broken in the mid or butt section and snapped fighting salmon or mid cast. Prior to that, I had rods in probably 3-4 times in the previous 15 years. Not sure what what’s changed as of late. All the rods I’ve sent in are newer models (move to lighter, lighter, lighter?). I also have changed how I fish quite a bit (beach, shooting heads, heavy flies, etc.). The tightening of the warranty policy and charges will change my behavior for the better as well. My rods will spend more time in tubes. I’ll probably tape all my rod sections while fishing this coho season. I hate to have to do that but I believe loose rod sections have driven most of the breaks. I wish there was a solution for that…back two piece rods again?
Bummer though. Looks like I’ll be shelling out 225 bucks to fix the blown up butt section of my 7 weight Sage One. It’s my favorite salmon beach rod but looks like it will now have to be relagated to a backup.
Bummer though. Looks like I’ll be shelling out 225 bucks to fix the blown up butt section of my 7 weight Sage One. It’s my favorite salmon beach rod but looks like it will now have to be relagated to a backup.
Lighter, faster rods absolutely do break easier. Higher modulus graphite is much more brittle and much less able to hold up after any kind of injury.
If a rod can hold a load at any point, then breaks later on a lesser or similar load, then something hit it or cracked it to make that happen. Graphite doesn't fatigue or break down. It can either hold a load or it can't and only external factors will lessen its durability.
Mukman
Life of the Party
???
I just paid Echo $50 to replace my out of production, first
??? I just paid Echo $50 to replace my old “unnamed” rod (“590-4X”). Granted, they replaced it with a Lift rod, but it’s probably comparable to my old rod. They said they would give me a deal if I wanted to upgrade. Don’t know what the deal would have been, but I was satisfied with the remedy after breaking a 13 year old rod.
$50 is also 50% of the retail cost of the rod you got. So we're both right.
Let's say I have it on good authority what the policies are
Mukman
Life of the Party
Roger. Love a win-win. Glad I didn’t upgrade because then I would have been wrong. Again.$50 is also 50% of the retail cost of the rod you got. So we're both right.
Let's say I have it on good authority what the policies are
Yeah, I think all but one of the breaks I’ve had over the last few years were due to loose ferrules. I had one break mid butt section and assume it was damaged somehow….though I have no idea how.
cedarslug
Steelhead
Feels bad man. I treat my rods pretty well and just got a new Pulse a few years ago. IIRC when I purchased the rod, the repair price was $75 and looks like it jumped to $225 per section.
Never broke a rod, and rarely splurge on gear, so I’m thinking now that maybe in the future I’ll probably go with < ~$300 rods from other companies. Also makes me think that used Sage rods will take a hit, since potential buyers will have to factor in cost of repair.
All in all, I might be an Echo or TFO kinda guy.
Never broke a rod, and rarely splurge on gear, so I’m thinking now that maybe in the future I’ll probably go with < ~$300 rods from other companies. Also makes me think that used Sage rods will take a hit, since potential buyers will have to factor in cost of repair.
All in all, I might be an Echo or TFO kinda guy.
Years ago I broke the tip off my Fenwick 6wt fly rod. (my fault) I told Fenwick I just need a tip, and I'd pay for it, but they said no problem, they'll send me a new one, free of charge. I laughed and said send me a 4wt then! Sure enough a week later, a new 4wt arrived, free of charge. I still have that rod, and I love Fenwick.
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Looks like my ESN will become tomatoes stakes if it ever get broken I paid less than that repair cost to built it.
Thread driftf: I feel the same way about reel manufacturers, not for repairs but for the desire to have an extra spool or the same reel in the quiver so spools would be interchangeable. Alas, easier to buy a new reel.
Pink Nighty
Legend
Love fenwicks too. My dads 1970-sumthin 6wt was what I learned to cast on. So to me, fenwick glass is what a fly rod is "supposed" to feel like. Still fish that 6 in a huge variety of fisheries and she does great in all of them. Also got a 6'6 3wt for panfish that is too much fun on big gills.
I've also never broke a glass rod. I swear a few bass have turned that 3wt into a circle but its never failed.
It used to be $50.00 for a new rod. I know as I used it a time or two. One time it broke stringing it up and another time I broke the top off in the case. How it broke off is a mystery to me. I put it away and the next time I used it, it was broke.
I can definitely see both sides of this issue.
On one hand, these no questions asked warranties definitely became heavily abused. I can also see, in today's crazy economy, the need to change things up to survive.
On the other hand, the concept of a no questions asked life time warranty was HEAVILY marketed by many rod companies. No doubt many rods were purchased as a direct result of companies strongly advertising these warranties. To that end I can't completely sympathize. For a while it seemed many companies were in a constant competition to one up the others with their warranties. Of course that sort of thing ended up being abused. Sage/Redington in particular were extremely casual about their policies, and more than most companies it seems, really made it easy for those who would abuse the system to be able to do so. I understand that bit them in the ass, but they also kinda set the table for that I feel.
My only real issue though is that changing warranty policies on rods that were sold under the "unconditional lifetime warranty" flag after the fact just doesn't sit super well with me. I feel like if I bought a rod 10 years ago, a purchase which was no doubt influenced by said warranty, then the lifetime warranty should be honored. On the surface it seems much more fair, to me anyway, to change their warranty policy on all new rods moving forward. If lifetime warranties can be so drastically changed after the fact, then what good is the "lifetime" portion?
I dunno, no doubt it's a complex issue. I like fly rods and I like that companies are willing to design and sell them to me, so I'm not going to complain too much. I'm willing to do my part to make sure these companies can still doing their thing. All of my thoughts are pretty much just in principal, as I'm not one to worry about warranties a ton these days, with the exception I suppose of some of thousand dollar rods I've bought. Back in the day I broke many Redington rods and definitely drove them back to their warehouse for replacement, but these days if I buy a two hundred dollar rod and get two or three years of good use out of it then I'm happy and if it breaks I just figure I got my moneys worth and move on. That's not so easy to do with the real high end stuff though. I also factor in how hard I am on gear and no longer feel that a company should be held responsible for my own abusive treatment of my gear. There was definitely a time when I was younger when I didn't feel that way.
I haven't bought a new Sage or Redington in years, and only own a total of 3 of their rods at this point, so this specific change definitely won't affect me.
One last thought....I do feel that the warranty on a thousand dollar fly rod should be handled differently than on a 200-400 dollar rod. At a certain price point my willingness to look at these fishing tools as a somewhat disposable tool definitely changes. Ultimately fly rods are just too damn vulnerable to spend that much money on one without some protection.
I've broken a LOT of rods over my fly fishing career. I'd say 90% were completley my fault, so I totally understand how slippery of a slope these warranties can be.
Anyway, just some rambling thoughts from my completley fried brain after a small string of ocean charter trips. I need sleep lol.
On one hand, these no questions asked warranties definitely became heavily abused. I can also see, in today's crazy economy, the need to change things up to survive.
On the other hand, the concept of a no questions asked life time warranty was HEAVILY marketed by many rod companies. No doubt many rods were purchased as a direct result of companies strongly advertising these warranties. To that end I can't completely sympathize. For a while it seemed many companies were in a constant competition to one up the others with their warranties. Of course that sort of thing ended up being abused. Sage/Redington in particular were extremely casual about their policies, and more than most companies it seems, really made it easy for those who would abuse the system to be able to do so. I understand that bit them in the ass, but they also kinda set the table for that I feel.
My only real issue though is that changing warranty policies on rods that were sold under the "unconditional lifetime warranty" flag after the fact just doesn't sit super well with me. I feel like if I bought a rod 10 years ago, a purchase which was no doubt influenced by said warranty, then the lifetime warranty should be honored. On the surface it seems much more fair, to me anyway, to change their warranty policy on all new rods moving forward. If lifetime warranties can be so drastically changed after the fact, then what good is the "lifetime" portion?
I dunno, no doubt it's a complex issue. I like fly rods and I like that companies are willing to design and sell them to me, so I'm not going to complain too much. I'm willing to do my part to make sure these companies can still doing their thing. All of my thoughts are pretty much just in principal, as I'm not one to worry about warranties a ton these days, with the exception I suppose of some of thousand dollar rods I've bought. Back in the day I broke many Redington rods and definitely drove them back to their warehouse for replacement, but these days if I buy a two hundred dollar rod and get two or three years of good use out of it then I'm happy and if it breaks I just figure I got my moneys worth and move on. That's not so easy to do with the real high end stuff though. I also factor in how hard I am on gear and no longer feel that a company should be held responsible for my own abusive treatment of my gear. There was definitely a time when I was younger when I didn't feel that way.
I haven't bought a new Sage or Redington in years, and only own a total of 3 of their rods at this point, so this specific change definitely won't affect me.
One last thought....I do feel that the warranty on a thousand dollar fly rod should be handled differently than on a 200-400 dollar rod. At a certain price point my willingness to look at these fishing tools as a somewhat disposable tool definitely changes. Ultimately fly rods are just too damn vulnerable to spend that much money on one without some protection.
I've broken a LOT of rods over my fly fishing career. I'd say 90% were completley my fault, so I totally understand how slippery of a slope these warranties can be.
Anyway, just some rambling thoughts from my completley fried brain after a small string of ocean charter trips. I need sleep lol.
@Evan B, what does it cost to produce a typical replacement rod section? If that is too simplistic, what are the cost parameters to produce a replacement segment? I have had one rod break via what might have been a manufacturer's defect (on an albacore, so maybe not...) but all the others have broken through simple use (misuse??? - $hit happens). If the break is a manufacturer's defect, I would expect the manufacturer to replace the rod. But it broke from "acts of Steve", I am willing to pay the costs of manufacturing the new section with a standard profit thrown in. That seem reasonable.
Going forward, my thoughts mirror @Nick Clayton's. I can see where if I purchased an inexpensive rod, I would simply purchase a similar new rod to replace it if it broke. But if I paid $1000 for a high-performance rod, I would be really cheezed off if the rod company indicated that my only option was to pay an exorbitant replacement cost or to purchase a new $1000 replacement. Frankly, in that case I might view all rods as expendable and NOT even consider a high-performance rod. Frankly, I do most of my trout fishing at present with 3wt. and 4wt. Redington CT rods. I could use higher end rods, but the places where I fish do not demand high performance casts. I do have some higher-performance rods (Sage, Winston, Beulah) for larger quarry, but I bet that I could achieve most of the same results with a rod that costs half or a quarter of the retail costs of these higher-performance rods.
Steve
Going forward, my thoughts mirror @Nick Clayton's. I can see where if I purchased an inexpensive rod, I would simply purchase a similar new rod to replace it if it broke. But if I paid $1000 for a high-performance rod, I would be really cheezed off if the rod company indicated that my only option was to pay an exorbitant replacement cost or to purchase a new $1000 replacement. Frankly, in that case I might view all rods as expendable and NOT even consider a high-performance rod. Frankly, I do most of my trout fishing at present with 3wt. and 4wt. Redington CT rods. I could use higher end rods, but the places where I fish do not demand high performance casts. I do have some higher-performance rods (Sage, Winston, Beulah) for larger quarry, but I bet that I could achieve most of the same results with a rod that costs half or a quarter of the retail costs of these higher-performance rods.
Steve
It's a complicated topic. A big part of why it all went down the way it did at least with the "smaller" brands I am more familiar with were basically forced in to it. When the big guys are working hard to sell this "no questions asked" lifetime warranty thing, as a small brand trying to compete, you have to do it. And at the time, the numbers worked out. As costs went up, and as the compounded number of rods that were out there being broken went up exponentially, it was obvious this wasn't going to work long term. For the smaller guys especially, to continue down that path would be a doomsday scenario.
Additionally, one thing to realize, is the policies as they have been written didn't cover a lot of what people make claims on. The "lifetime" thing was more that you'd have some options for repair, not that you'd get a new rod for $35 10yrs after you bought yours because you slammed it in a car door. The "no questions asked" part was often not part of the written deal, just more of a way of handling it. I can't remember seeing any policies written that had a no questions asked clause... if they did, it was more that "no matter what you do, you have options."
Tough questions to answer because there are a number of factors. Here's a few points;
1. A rod isn't 4 separate pieces stuck together. It's one rod cut in to four pieces. The tip section is often the only section you can build without building a full rod. Higher end rods hand-built domestically often are able to build the middle pieces, but imported rods typically can't. So any time you break a non tip section, an entire rod has to be scrapped to fulfill the claim.
2. Defects, in my experience, are always dealt with free of charge. But like I mentioned earlier, graphite will fail the first time it's under load if it's defective. Graphite does not fatigue, so if it can hold a load one time, then fails the next time it's under that same or lesser load, then something happened to it like a whack or crack of some kind.
Hope that helps a bit.
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one thing to add. There is actually one company that I believe DID have a "no questions asked" policy, which is what forced the hand of the others to handle their stuff in a similar fashion, even if it wasn't in the official policy. It's a very large company that doesn't rely on rod sales to pay the bills. They could basically give away every rod they make and just about call it an accounting error. So when companies that rely on rods as their primary source of revenue are pressured in to these policies by consumers, it has long term consequences for both sides. So we're all trying to recalibrate and figure out how to survive and still take care of people.
Bruce Baker
Life of the Party
Do you live in a somewhat reasonable distance from the Sage factory? I ask because several years ago, I brought a Sage One in for repair and they did not charge me. I do not know if it would be the same in your situation, but it couldn't hurt to try.