Question for the Raft Experts

M_D

M_D

Bringin' the Skunk
Forum Supporter
I have a second hand Watermaster Grizzly that is 22 years old. It is the only raft I have ever owned. I got it from BobA on the old forum and I think I've owned it for at least 10 years.

It has a pesky air leak someplace where the seat board is glued to the tube on one side. The seat platform would need to be removed/disassembled to access/fix the leak. I've known of the leak for over two years.

Not knowing what I don't know, to me, the leak has been more of an annoyance than a safety concern. For example, I can hear it while fishing but I can go 6 or 8 hours without needing to add air...and mostly I only add air cuz my OCD needs a tight tube. This said, the leak seems to be getting slightly louder and I'm thinking I shouldn't ignore it any longer.

In 2024, the Watermaster rep strongly urged me to NOT fill the joint opening with Aquaseal and he guestimated the repair would start at about $350....not including shipping. I'm guessing today the cost will be around $ 5-600....which I see as about half the cost of a Commander or a third the cost of a new Grizzly.

I'm 64 years old and I'm Dutch......meaning, I'm not out there pushing the boat to its limit , I hope I have 6 more years on the water, and I don't like to waste money. I'm leaning toward the repair than rather than buying new...but then I question whether or not this is false economy.

So this is where you guys come in. I thought there were a couple raft builders out there and, if nothing else, plenty of members with more raft experience than me. What am I missing or failing to consider? For instance, is it foolish to fix the leak when I might be at the life expectancy of PVC ( at least I think it's PVC)? Or does PVC live forever with decent care?

Anyway, I'm open to suggestions, advice, or different perspectives.

Thanks in advance,

Mike d
 
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i would get a newer, or new raft - which most likely willl have improvements over your current ride. donate current leaker to someone interested in trying to fix.
 
If you're not "married" to Watermaster, I'd look for a used Outcast Pac 800. But then, I don't know anything about your favorite way to fish, so my suggestion might be completely useless...............
EDIT - Oops - I'm not a raft expert, so disregard my suggestion..................
 
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skyriver said:
My not so expert opinion would be to buy Lue's nearly new Scout that he has posted in the classifieds for $700.

The watermaster has lived a good life... probably time to retire it.

The Scout is only 35# so you might fish for more than 6 years. 👍
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Going with a 35# raft is a game changer. My pram was 65, pontoons I looked at 50+/-.
My outcast Clearwater is 35#. It’s a joy to move, lift so the Scout would be as well
 
M_D said:
I have a second hand Watermaster Grizzly that is 22 years old. It is the only raft I have ever owned. I got it from BobA on the old forum and I think I've owned it for at least 10 years.

It has a pesky air leak someplace where the seat board is glued to the tube on one side. The seat platform would need to be removed/disassembled to access/fix the leak. I've known of the leak for over two years.

Not knowing what I don't know, to me, the leak has been more of an annoyance than a safety concern. For example, I can hear it while fishing but I can go 6 or 8 hours without needing to add air...and mostly I only add air cuz my OCD needs a tight tube. This said, the leak seems to be getting slightly louder and I'm thinking I shouldn't ignore it any longer.

In 2024, the Watermaster rep strongly urged me to NOT fill the joint opening with Aquaseal and he guestimated the repair would start at about $350....not including shipping. I'm guessing today the cost will be around $ 5-600....which I see as about half the cost of a Commander or a third the cost of a new Grizzly.

I'm 64 years old and I'm Dutch......meaning, I'm not out there pushing the boat to its limit , I hope I have 6 more years on the water, and I don't like to waste money. I'm leaning toward the repair than rather than buying new...but then I question whether or not this is false economy.

So this is where you guys come in. I thought there were a couple raft builders out there and, if nothing else, plenty of members with more raft experience than me. What am I missing or failing to consider? For instance, is it foolish to fix the leak when I might be at the life expectancy of PVC ( at least I think it's PVC)? Or does PVC live forever with decent care?

Anyway, I'm open to suggestions, advice, or different perspectives.

Thanks in advance,

Mike d
Click to expand...
There's lots of chatter about how long rafts will last, and the rough consensus I've heard is that with proper care hypalon boats can last forever, PVC boats with glued seams should last at least 10 years, and higher end/newer boats with welded seams up to 20 years - but those are averages/rules-of-thumb, not gospel. Personally - If I'm taking a boat on multi-day trips and/or stretches of legit whitewater I'm quite a stickler, but less so when the boat is going to be used for class I-II day floats.

If you take a close look at the raft, and you can see places where it looks like the seams are starting to come apart it's probably time to say goodbye. What you've described sounds like a pretty minor leak to me, so...if it was me and this was the only issue with the raft I'd remove the seat (or whatever else is necessary to access the leak, use the soapy-water technique to pinpoint the leak, and patch said leak.

By all accounts, Aquaseal works fine for small repairs on PVC , so if you've got some of that handy you could just rub some Aquaseal into/onto the area with the pinhole, let it cure, and see whether or not that's addressed the leak. Some people like to leave a thicker layer, then deflate until they've got a reasonable amount of negative pressure to suck some of the Aquaseal into the pinhole for a few seconds before allowing the pressure to go neutral.

If it was me - I'd probably use a dedicated PVC adhesive and a high-quality PVC patch. "HH-66" adhesive has worked well for me on PVC, but if you *really* want the highest end stuff NRS sells a product called "LA 4009" that costs ~3X as much (~$35) and requires mixing with an accelerator that runs another $20. NRS sells a variety of patch material, and everything they sell is legit, so if you decided to go the specialty PVC-adhesive+patch route & get the cheapest stuff they sell. Also lots of great instructional content on YouTube if you decide to go either route.

Best of luck with your repairs if you decide to give it a shot!
 
JayB said:
There's lots of chatter about how long rafts will last, and the rough consensus I've heard is that with proper care hypalon boats can last forever, PVC boats with glued seams should last at least 10 years, and higher end/newer boats with welded seams up to 20 years - but those are averages/rules-of-thumb, not gospel. Personally - If I'm taking a boat on multi-day trips and/or stretches of legit whitewater I'm quite a stickler, but less so when the boat is going to be used for class I-II day floats.

If you take a close look at the raft, and you can see places where it looks like the seams are starting to come apart it's probably time to say goodbye. What you've described sounds like a pretty minor leak to me, so...if it was me and this was the only issue with the raft I'd remove the seat (or whatever else is necessary to access the leak, use the soapy-water technique to pinpoint the leak, and patch said leak.

By all accounts, Aquaseal works fine for small repairs on PVC , so if you've got some of that handy you could just rub some Aquaseal into/onto the area with the pinhole, let it cure, and see whether or not that's addressed the leak. Some people like to leave a thicker layer, then deflate until they've got a reasonable amount of negative pressure to suck some of the Aquaseal into the pinhole for a few seconds before allowing the pressure to go neutral.

If it was me - I'd probably use a dedicated PVC adhesive and a high-quality PVC patch. "HH-66" adhesive has worked well for me on PVC, but if you *really* want the highest end stuff NRS sells a product called "LA 4009" that costs ~3X as much (~$35) and requires mixing with an accelerator that runs another $20. NRS sells a variety of patch material, and everything they sell is legit, so if you decided to go the specialty PVC-adhesive+patch route & get the cheapest stuff they sell. Also lots of great instructional content on YouTube if you decide to go either route.

Best of luck with your repairs if you decide to give it a shot!
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Thank you
 
M_D said:
In 2024, the Watermaster rep strongly urged me to NOT fill the joint opening with Aquaseal.
Click to expand...

JayB said:
By all accounts, Aquaseal works fine for small repairs on PVC , so if you've got some of that handy you could just rub some Aquaseal into/onto the area with the pinhole, let it cure, and see whether or not that's addressed the leak.
Click to expand...

Rich knows his products' materials, how they are assembled, and how to properly repair them. I personally would not use this option unless I was in the middle of a remote, multi-day trip and it was my only way to get home.

Salmo_g said:
I'd call Big Sky Inflatables in MT and ask about the value of having the repair done and a cost estimate.
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^^^^ +1, ask about the value given its age and overall condition. It might involve email and photos of the boat to get a truly informed answer.
 
That's not how I'd do things unless I was in a similar predicament, either ( & FWIW I carry a full-bore repair kit w/patching materials, a spare valve, etc in a small pelican case on every float) - but if it's a "I'll give the fastest, easiest, cheapest fix with materials I've got on hand a shot and toss it if it doesn't work" situation then there's not much to lose by giving it a shot IMO. Even though that technique *can* work perfectly well for pinhole leaks in PVC boats - If I was a manufacturer and had to worry about liability I'd probably advise anyone that asked to send the boat in for professional repair.

Anyhow. Just my $0.02. Worth what anyone who takes it paid for it. One nice thing about inflatables is that it's pretty easy to tell if your repair has been inadequate.
 
Also - there's a guy named Don that's been a professional raft guide for quite a long time that does inflatable repairs out of his home in Stanwood when he's not out on the river. When I had a couple of small bubbles show up between the inner and outer tube on a hypalon raft that I use for multi-day trips and I wanted a pro-level inspection and repair that's who I took my raft to. Rate was very reasonable. I can send you his number via PM if you're interested in speaking with him.
 
JayB said:
Also - there's a guy named Don that's been a professional raft guide for quite a long time that does inflatable repairs out of his home in Stanwood when he's not out on the river. When I had a couple of small bubbles show up between the inner and outer tube on a hypalon raft that I use for multi-day trips and I wanted a pro-level inspection and repair that's who I took my raft to. Rate was very reasonable. I can send you his number via PM if you're interested in speaking with him.
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Yes please send his number….gives me one more option and he’s only an hour down the road
 
I'm not a raft expert but some reason I've been getting emails from Watermaster the past few days. One thing they mentioned in the emails is that their rafts have lifetime warranties. I'd press them to fix this for you and see where it gets you.
 
Had this discussion with Watermaster in 2024. 👆

The warranty program started after the current owner took over. I think it was 2007. Mine is an ‘04….plus I’m not the original owner…so it felt kinda dirty trying to play that card

But it’s all good…I’m gonna connect with them next week and depending on how that turns out, I might contact the guy in Stanwood…or talk myself into a new one😎….I now have informed options 👍
 
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