I've had several positive experiences. It's definitely not just in how many meetings you go to, but you definitely don't get heard if you don't go (or if you don't submit a comment). Complaining on the internet certainly doesn't work.
Proposed Legislation: WDFW Commissioners To Receive Salary
- Thread starter Long_Rod_Silvers
- Start date
Dustin Chromers
Legend
Of course you have....
Rob Allen
Life of the Party
Give an example of when your public input was used to make a decision.
Not something you felt good about but where your opinion was actually used.
I mentioned that tenkara fishing is widely accepted as a method of fly fishing, and it was added to the fly fishing only definition in the regulations pamphlet. I have also worked with the department to rescue stranded lahontan cutthroat from the spawning creek when it gets too warm. Occasionally the department will ask about what the opinion of the angling community is regarding certain local fisheries as well, and that has had an impact on how they managed a few local waters. On the hunting side, I'm one of two volunteers who helps rescue deer from the irrigation canals out here. I also attended most of the meetings for the new guide regulations and logbooks, which the department definitely listened to and worked with the guides to implement. During the North of Falcon meeting in Wenatchee about 4 years ago, the department asked about how to structure limits on a season for salmon - and while the allowable harvest was set, they used input from the people at the meeting (including my input) to decide on daily limits for that season, allowing for a longer season than the previous year.
Billy -
I understand your frustration perfectly. Your eastern Washington elk example could be repeated with many other resources (wild steelhead to mountain goats) that we may want to interact with. The abundance of most of those critters is strongly limited by the amount and quality of the key habitat needed to support that species or complex of species. It is WDFW job to "manage' this species within the limitations of the remaining amount and quality of the habitat that species needs. Or to put it another way the capacity of that species is limited by the habitat we as a society given them to work with. I believe it is WDFW job to tell the citizens what is limiting the habitat to support the critter in question. It is not their job and in fact they can not lobby for more habitat rather again we as citizens have given the responsibility for those decisions to the state (legislature). If there are not enough elk in a given area because of habitat loss and we feel than needs to be change it becomes the job of that person staring back at us in that mirror to lobby for the needed changes. Of course, that requires a fair amount of time from that person to educate themselves on the resource needs and the decision-making structure, so they know how to apply the needed pressure for changes. With all the other demands on one's time I fully understand how life's prior would limit what time one might be able to commit to such an effort. But if we are not able to commit to that effort it is unfair to blame others.
Regardless of the above it often is the case we have species of interest below levels needed for desired us. It then becomes the responsibility of WDFW to manage that resource (and competing species) to assure sustainability and if appropriate provide some level of recreation. Here again the man looking back at us is the person that needs to advocate for their interests. Again, let's stay the elk example (blue mountain elk); the 2022 WDFW game harvest, status, and trends report 4 factors are listed as limiting the current elk population being below "desired" levels. If I were to take issue on, I would be asking following detailed questions of WDFW. The first limiter was listed as a couple harvest winters resulting in winter kills and fetus abortion. I would be asking what the habitat is lacking to help mitigate those harsh winters. Does the herd require better thermo cover and/or better forage. If so, who can help with providing that habitat? The second of course is the calf predation by mountain lions. A quick review of the elk population parameters was in acceptable levels prior to 2016. What changed post 2016? Has the cougar abundance increased? their forage changes? etc. Third limiter was too high road densities in key summer range increasing human elk interaction pushing the elk from their preferred range. Whose roads? How we get the owner to limit road traffic? The last is the practice of people looking for antler sheds in the late winter/early spring. Again, this increases human/elk interactions at a critical time. How can that be limited.
Now I admit I'm not an elk hunter and have never been in the blue mountains but a few minutes looking at a report provide the above example to put oneself in position to advocate (maybe effectively) on behalf the resource and hopefully improved outdoor experience. Again, a significant time commitment falls on the shoulder of that man in the mirror. If he is unwilling to take that on who will?
The only we collectively be success we have to individually step. I'm not casting stones at those who can not step up but that approach is the reality in my opinion.
Curt
I understand your frustration perfectly. Your eastern Washington elk example could be repeated with many other resources (wild steelhead to mountain goats) that we may want to interact with. The abundance of most of those critters is strongly limited by the amount and quality of the key habitat needed to support that species or complex of species. It is WDFW job to "manage' this species within the limitations of the remaining amount and quality of the habitat that species needs. Or to put it another way the capacity of that species is limited by the habitat we as a society given them to work with. I believe it is WDFW job to tell the citizens what is limiting the habitat to support the critter in question. It is not their job and in fact they can not lobby for more habitat rather again we as citizens have given the responsibility for those decisions to the state (legislature). If there are not enough elk in a given area because of habitat loss and we feel than needs to be change it becomes the job of that person staring back at us in that mirror to lobby for the needed changes. Of course, that requires a fair amount of time from that person to educate themselves on the resource needs and the decision-making structure, so they know how to apply the needed pressure for changes. With all the other demands on one's time I fully understand how life's prior would limit what time one might be able to commit to such an effort. But if we are not able to commit to that effort it is unfair to blame others.
Regardless of the above it often is the case we have species of interest below levels needed for desired us. It then becomes the responsibility of WDFW to manage that resource (and competing species) to assure sustainability and if appropriate provide some level of recreation. Here again the man looking back at us is the person that needs to advocate for their interests. Again, let's stay the elk example (blue mountain elk); the 2022 WDFW game harvest, status, and trends report 4 factors are listed as limiting the current elk population being below "desired" levels. If I were to take issue on, I would be asking following detailed questions of WDFW. The first limiter was listed as a couple harvest winters resulting in winter kills and fetus abortion. I would be asking what the habitat is lacking to help mitigate those harsh winters. Does the herd require better thermo cover and/or better forage. If so, who can help with providing that habitat? The second of course is the calf predation by mountain lions. A quick review of the elk population parameters was in acceptable levels prior to 2016. What changed post 2016? Has the cougar abundance increased? their forage changes? etc. Third limiter was too high road densities in key summer range increasing human elk interaction pushing the elk from their preferred range. Whose roads? How we get the owner to limit road traffic? The last is the practice of people looking for antler sheds in the late winter/early spring. Again, this increases human/elk interactions at a critical time. How can that be limited.
Now I admit I'm not an elk hunter and have never been in the blue mountains but a few minutes looking at a report provide the above example to put oneself in position to advocate (maybe effectively) on behalf the resource and hopefully improved outdoor experience. Again, a significant time commitment falls on the shoulder of that man in the mirror. If he is unwilling to take that on who will?
The only we collectively be success we have to individually step. I'm not casting stones at those who can not step up but that approach is the reality in my opinion.
Curt
Rob Allen
Life of the Party
How many of those involved the commission?
Rob Allen
Life of the Party
It's my understanding that elk in eastern WA are not experiencing their current decline as the result of habitat but the failure to manage other species because of political considerations not biological ones.
So.......when are you applying for one of the commission positions?
#smalmaforcommission
The commission has to sign off on regulations and management decisions. I don't think they are involved with the volunteer work I do, so everything except the volunteer work.
WDFW will also accept public comments on the proposed recommendations at a public hearing on March 27. Those interested in providing verbal comments during the virtual meeting should pre-register online. Pre-registration for public comment closes at 8 a.m. on March 26.
They can't act on your concerns if they don't hear from you. Come up with an idea of a solution and present it to them. And do it over and over and over. Get to that meeting and don't be late. You'll get three minutes to make your case and it should be aimed at solving a problem more than whining about it.
Did you forget you already posted this on page 3?
I felt the need to highlight and emphasize that particular paragraph.Did you forget you already posted this on page 3?
@Billy
Occupy Skagit didn't happen overnight. It took an entire year to get it up and running. It took a large commitment of time from several key people who had the time to give. It took finding a solution that was not only feasible but scientifically sound. In our case, it was basin by basin management of ESA listed steelhead instead of a blanket closure. Even with all the positives it had going for it, it still took six years, seven if you go back to the germ of the idea. WDFW works on a biannual budget so anything that involves money, (and what doesn't?) will need to be budgeted for in the next budget. I had a sit down coffee meeting with my legislator about the WDFW budget during those six years.
I am unfamiliar with the problem you speak of, but there may be an out of the box solution that has yet to be tried. Find it. Advocate for it. And try to attract as much qualified help as you can.
And try to ignore Rob's pessimistic bs. His experience with WDFW is not all encompassing and in no way reflects the department as a whole.
Occupy Skagit didn't happen overnight. It took an entire year to get it up and running. It took a large commitment of time from several key people who had the time to give. It took finding a solution that was not only feasible but scientifically sound. In our case, it was basin by basin management of ESA listed steelhead instead of a blanket closure. Even with all the positives it had going for it, it still took six years, seven if you go back to the germ of the idea. WDFW works on a biannual budget so anything that involves money, (and what doesn't?) will need to be budgeted for in the next budget. I had a sit down coffee meeting with my legislator about the WDFW budget during those six years.
I am unfamiliar with the problem you speak of, but there may be an out of the box solution that has yet to be tried. Find it. Advocate for it. And try to attract as much qualified help as you can.
And try to ignore Rob's pessimistic bs. His experience with WDFW is not all encompassing and in no way reflects the department as a whole.
My issue is with more the commission. So advising me to contact WDFW when I think the issue is really a couple bias commissioners who are in over there head is not going to do much. The WDFW has done a great job IMHO of letting it be known the herd in the Blues is in crisis. They deserve huge credit for the calf study and what it has shown. Now we just need a commission that will act on it.
I do appreciate the link to review the seasons and tag allotments and will contact them with any issues I see.
I wasn't very clear in my last post. It was about attending the Commissioner's Meetings that are held monthly.
Schedule is here:
2023 WDFW Commission meeting minutes and agendas
Links to the meeting agenda, approved minutes, and audio/video can be found by clicking the meeting dates listed below. Dates that are not linked do
wdfw.wa.gov
To WW's point the commission provides direction to the agency so winning the commission means willing the agency!
Furthermore,if a potential fix involves policy changes any action will have to go through the commission. There is a reason that Occupy Skagit or the anti groups go directly to the commission.
Furthermore,if a potential fix involves policy changes any action will have to go through the commission. There is a reason that Occupy Skagit or the anti groups go directly to the commission.
Attending these meetings gives us insight into the way the current commissioners think. That is valuable if we want them to make different decisions.I wasn't very clear in my last post. It was about attending the Commissioner's Meetings that are held monthly.
Schedule is here:
2023 WDFW Commission meeting minutes and agendas
Links to the meeting agenda, approved minutes, and audio/video can be found by clicking the meeting dates listed below. Dates that are not linked do
Yea...and you also get an idea of the immense amount of stuff they have on their plate.
Feb. 14, 2023
Contact: Commission office, 360-902-2267
Commission to decide on guide logbook and commercial smelt rules at February meeting
Wildlife Committee also holding special meeting on game management plan
OLYMPIA – The Washington Fish and Wildlife Commission expects to make decisions to update rules for fishing guide logbooks and commercial smelt fisheries during a virtual meeting on Friday, Feb. 17.
Beginning at 8 a.m., commissioners will hear from Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW) staff and decide whether to adopt updated rules regarding reporting requirements for freshwater game fish guides, food fish guides and combination game fish and food fish guides. Then, commissioners will decide whether to adopt rule revisions for commercial eulachon (popularly known as smelt) fisheries to align permanent rules with current management strategies.
The Commission will also discuss and may decide on a performance agreement for WDFW Director Kelly Susewind.
Also on Friday, the Commission's Wildlife Committee will hold a special meeting to discuss the continued development and new format for WDFW's statewide Game Management Plan. That meeting is scheduled to begin at 12 p.m.
These meetings will be held virtually via Zoom; for more information on how to watch and participate in these and other upcoming meetings, visit the Commission's webpage.
Contact: Commission office, 360-902-2267
Commission to decide on guide logbook and commercial smelt rules at February meeting
Wildlife Committee also holding special meeting on game management plan
OLYMPIA – The Washington Fish and Wildlife Commission expects to make decisions to update rules for fishing guide logbooks and commercial smelt fisheries during a virtual meeting on Friday, Feb. 17.
Beginning at 8 a.m., commissioners will hear from Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW) staff and decide whether to adopt updated rules regarding reporting requirements for freshwater game fish guides, food fish guides and combination game fish and food fish guides. Then, commissioners will decide whether to adopt rule revisions for commercial eulachon (popularly known as smelt) fisheries to align permanent rules with current management strategies.
The Commission will also discuss and may decide on a performance agreement for WDFW Director Kelly Susewind.
Also on Friday, the Commission's Wildlife Committee will hold a special meeting to discuss the continued development and new format for WDFW's statewide Game Management Plan. That meeting is scheduled to begin at 12 p.m.
These meetings will be held virtually via Zoom; for more information on how to watch and participate in these and other upcoming meetings, visit the Commission's webpage.
The guide regulations were initially met with quite a bit of skepticism, and have evolved into something that appears to be quite reasonable. Even though I don't guide anymore, I definitely would have heard if there were any major concerns coming from the guiding community.