OP Closures

Major bummer!
 
One more cut of the thousand….
SF
 
Do the tribes still get to do whatever they want?
 
Salmo_g said:
It appears that the Stillaguamish River closure disease has spread to the coast. Can't even fish SRC in order to ostensibly protect Chinook?
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Is fecal coliform bacteria still the issue when you say disease has spread to the coast?
 
Summer SRC chasing has been a staple for me. Super low water eliminates the crowds due to the significant challenges that low water imposes on most of the runs.
Fishing this way I’ve never touched a Chinook.
I guess I get it. Poachers could claim that they’re just after SRC. But man most of these places are so remote and inaccessible that nobody is going to know who’s chasing what. Most laws just keep the honest people honest. Could be that eliminating Chinook fishing alone would have the same affect?
 
LBL said:
I guess I get it. Poachers could claim that they’re just after SRC. But man most of these places are so remote and inaccessible that nobody is going to know who’s chasing what. Most laws just keep the honest people honest. Could be that eliminating Chinook fishing alone would have the same affect?
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As if the regulations matter, it's an easy one. Fly fishing only, floating lines only, maximum hook size 6, unweighted flies. Not many Chinook would be harmed.
 
This seems to be a never ending problem for Washington anglers. I had a meeting today with the fishery co-managers in my region. At the end of the meeting, I asked the WDFW representative to answer a question, which was how does WDFW have open hatchery steelhead seasons in the regulation pamphlet each year in rivers with ESA listed steelhead (e.g., the Grande Ronde and Klickitat) where other rivers are forever closed for hatchery steelhead unless by emergency opening (e.g., the Methow and Wenatchee)? This makes no sense except for the management policies and permits were written by different staff. The ESA listing is the same same for all these rivers. Similarly, but also contradictory, the Methow has a C&R trout season even though there are ESA listed bull trout, steelhead, and spring Chinook whereas the Wenatchee has the same ESA listings but does not warrant a C&R trout season. There are so many inconsistencies within the regulations because the permits are written differently, even though the permits are written by the same agency and submitted to the same agencies for approval.

Is this OP closure in effect until the hatcheries get their broodstock quotas? I see little point in supporting hatcheries if they are so unsuccessful in providing adult returns to areas with no dams, quality habitat, and releases with 50 miles of the ocean, to the point that the entire river is shut down to angling for other species.
 

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Salmo_g said:
As if the regulations matter, it's an easy one. Fly fishing only, floating lines only, maximum hook size 6, unweighted flies. Not many Chinook would be harmed.
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The klick closes to steel and salmon at the end of November but stays open for white fish but you have to fish a size 14 or smaller. Guess how many folks I see when we walk the trail with full salmon gear and size 14 hooks?
 
Another example of non-sensical asshatery on the OP.

The Quill system springers are not going to bite anything other than bait except in lightning strike probabilities. And bait already shuts down on the 15th. The Sol Duc is barely passable right now it's so boney as LBL noted above. These regs will do little/nothing to increase broodstock take, but they will reduce the eyes on the river that could be reporting the snaggers going after valuable spring chinook.

What's happening is exactly the same thing that happened last year, just a little earlier. In the big November flood two years ago, the weir at the hatchery that diverted water into the hatchery creek system got completely blown out. Now there isn't enough water for the springers that are milling around in front of the hatchery creek to get up to be collected. I saw at least 50-60 of them milling around there getting dark two days ago. Last year, a guide had to catch them for the hatchery after the closure to get the needed take (a friend of mine).

And... without the weir, the primary barrier to them spreading around up river is gone. They have a half-ass temporary replacement right now that doesn't seem to be doing much. There are quite a few sitting in deep holes just upstream as I saw them last weekend.

The return definitely feels low this year. I pretty much stopped fishing back in early June except for a last trip this past week. Why? Who knows. Not having any appreciable rain since mid-April can't be helping (.5" total for May and June each, which should have been 3" and 4"). However, this closure isn't going to do anything material to help as far as I can tell.

If I'm missing something, please read me in.
 
Wow - just got back from a few days of bopping around the rivers out there swinging some of the goofy small hairwings I've been tying up recently. Caught and released some beautiful small trout, even one whitey on the swing which was surprising. No summeruns encountered, no Chinook harrased or hooked. As mentioned already it is low, boney and crispy/crunchy out there.

A campfire ban might do more good for all living things than this closure right now?20230711_091205.jpg
 
Divad said:
I would LOVE our WDFW to start getting into regs like this. Please WA 🙏 it’s far better than closure.
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That would be creative management. It would also be inconsistent with the unofficial WDFW policy of appeasing the tribal co-managers. Which effectively makes the tribes the de facto non-treaty recreational fishing managers, which has no basis at law or in case law. Or, it could be as simple as the easiest management action is just to close all fishing. Lazy.
 
Nick Clayton said:
Lol Anglers can't unite over anything, but watch how many unite if suddenly the OP rivers are fly fishing only
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I was one of the first people to get FMLA when my son was born. Almost nobody who already has kids was happy for me. It is an American flaw to not be happy for something that doesn’t directly benefit you.

These closures blow.
 
Salmo_g said:
That would be creative management. It would also be inconsistent with the unofficial WDFW policy of appeasing the tribal co-managers. Which effectively makes the tribes the de facto non-treaty recreational fishing managers, which has no basis at law or in case law. Or, it could be as simple as the easiest management action is just to close all fishing. Lazy.
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Salmon and steelhead co-management​

Washington's salmon, steelhead, and other fisheries are managed cooperatively in a unique government-to-government relationship. One government is the State of Washington, and the other are Indian nations whose rights were reserved in treaties signed with the federal government in the 1850s. In those treaties, tribal nations agreed to allow the peaceful settlement of much of western Washington, and provided the land to do so, in exchange for their continued right to fish, gather shellfish, hunt and exercise other sovereign rights. A 1974 federal court case (U.S. v. Washington, decided by U.S. District Court Judge George Boldt, and following sub-proceedings) re-affirmed the tribes' treaty rights to harvest salmon, steelhead, and other fish species and established them as co-managers of Washington fisheries.

If I am reading this correctly, the Indian nations are co-managers through Case Law and through signed treaties.
 
Salmo_g said:
That would be creative management. It would also be inconsistent with the unofficial WDFW policy of appeasing the tribal co-managers. Which effectively makes the tribes the de facto non-treaty recreational fishing managers, which has no basis at law or in case law. Or, it could be as simple as the easiest management action is just to close all fishing. Lazy.
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Lazy is right. Lazy in thought and lazy in communications.

Having slept on this, it still doesn't make sense... If they are concerned with hatchery broodstock take, then whyinhell are the Bogachiel and Calawah included? Last time I looked out the window, the hatchery that produces spring chinook is on the Sol Duc well upstream of Leyendecker. If it's not for hatchery take but for conservation of spring/summer life histories of natives, then say that. And... in that case, might want to take a look at that other river to the south too (bite my tongue). That they didn't do that supports that this is about the hatchery and I'm back to this not making sense...

And... as Salmo pointed out in his first post, the same outcome could be achieved with some reg tweaking since they are already doing that with the emergency closure. Or probably by just doing nothing other than what was already planned in the regs.

My admittedly cynical alternative theory of what is really happening follows - the hatchery take is a mess and rather than doing the needed research, talking to stakeholders and coming up with a solution that helps the hatchery and minimizes impact to recreational river anglers, they said:

"F*ck those guys, there are only a few of them anyway. Doing all that other stuff would be hard and I want to take my summer vacation. Plus, this way we can put our massive enforcement workforce of 2 people(?) down at the ocean fisheries and not worry about those pain in the ass river guys. And the tribes don't want them playing with their food anyway. Write a quick, poorly worded, and ambiguous announcement. Done. Problem solved. Vacation time."
 
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