Official 2024 NFL Season Discussion

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will never understand the drafting or trading for 'franchise QB's' and not surrounding them with the best possible O-line. My fave QB since Joe Montana was Andrew Luck, whose brilliant career potential was crushed playing behind a dismal OL that turned what became a shortened career into a series of scramble plays, desperate QB runs and brutal concussion sacks.
 
SurfnFish said:
will never understand the drafting or trading for 'franchise QB's' and not surrounding them with the best possible O-line. My fave QB since Joe Montana was Andrew Luck, whose brilliant career potential was crushed playing behind a dismal OL that turned what became a shortened career into a series of scramble plays, desperate QB runs and brutal concussion sacks.
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Agreed. Paying megabucks for a brilliant quarterback then surrounding him with cast offs and throwaway's makes about as much sense as starting a Formula 1 race on Walmart tires.
 
I've toyed with the idea of QBs having a cap limit, kind of like NBA players have a max contract. When 1 player is getting what,, nearly 1/4 of the cap space themselves that doesn't seem right. But I guess that is part of the deal.

What i would REALLY like to see is teams get a 5-10% discount against the cap on players they drafted. If you build a good team through the draft you should be able to keep those players. Equity is achieved by draft rankings. Don't draft well with high picks? Well, you deserve to suck...
 
O
Yard Sale said:
I've toyed with the idea of QBs having a cap limit, kind of like NBA players have a max contract. When 1 player is getting what,, nearly 1/4 of the cap space themselves that doesn't seem right. But I guess that is part of the deal.

What i would REALLY like to see is teams get a 5-10% discount against the cap on players they drafted. If you build a good team through the draft you should be able to keep those players. Equity is achieved by draft rankings. Don't draft well with high picks? Well, you deserve to suck...
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and when you suck you keep getting high draft picks… right? And evidently the players you’re drafting with these top picks continually suck because of poor scouting or poor coaching?
Something gotta give!!! O I’m
 
SurfnFish said:
will never understand the drafting or trading for 'franchise QB's' and not surrounding them with the best possible O-line. My fave QB since Joe Montana was Andrew Luck, whose brilliant career potential was crushed playing behind a dismal OL that turned what became a shortened career into a series of scramble plays, desperate QB runs and brutal concussion sacks.
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How many 'best' O-lines do you think the league can put together?

When it comes to 'best' talent there is a finite pool. Coaching can help some but again you run into the same problem. The salary cap ensures that if you are going to be best in one area you are going to suffer in another. The stated goal of the NFL is parity. The dream is that every game will matter to every team until the end when they have to go to the eighth tie-breaker to determine the play offs.

They could scrap the cap like MLB and allow teams to buy all the talent they can afford. But somehow I suspect Jerry Jones will even fuck that up.
 
_WW_ said:
How many 'best' O-lines do you think the league can put together?

When it comes to 'best' talent there is a finite pool. Coaching can help some but again you run into the same problem. The salary cap ensures that if you are going to be best in one area you are going to suffer in another. The stated goal of the NFL is parity. The dream is that every game will matter to every team until the end when they have to go to the eighth tie-breaker to determine the play offs.

They could scrap the cap like MLB and allow teams to buy all the talent they can afford. But somehow I suspect Jerry Jones will even fuck that up.
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There is a serious lack of O-Line talent that can match the D-Line talent currently out there. The trend has been for the more athletic big guys to move to the D-Line because that's where the money is. You'd think the market would correct for this, but it has not really been happening.
 
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Weren't a bunch of people here (and the talking heads on TV) raving about the O-line Sea put together the year after Russ left? I seem to remember that being the prevailing thought.
 
clarkman said:
Weren't a bunch of people here (and the talking heads on TV) raving about the O-line Sea put together the year after Russ left? I seem to remember that being the prevailing thought.
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Well, Abe Lucas and Charles Cross are very good O-linemen, and Damien Lewis, who they for some reason let walk this offseason, was also very above average. But it only takes one weak link, and there's usually at least 2 of them on this line, and the whole thing doesn't work.
 
Evan B said:
There is a serious lack of O-Line talent that can match the D-Line talent currently out there. The trend has been for the more athletic big guys to move to the D-Line because that's where the money is. You'd think the market would correct for this, but it has not really been happening.
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Running play = D line has to react to the O line.
Passing play = O line has to react to the D line.
That's why a powerful run game is such an advantage and makes the play action work. But again, the finite pool thing.
One of the stupidest penalties is the illegal man down field. You are supposed to move the ball in that direction but there is a limit on how many guys can go in that direction? Really fucks up the RPO unless they can all read the QB's mind.
 
_WW_ said:
One of the stupidest penalties is the illegal man down field. You are supposed to move the ball in that direction but there is a limit on how many guys can go in that direction? Really fucks up the RPO unless they can all read the QB's mind.
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This....one of a few
 
If they allowed it think of all the magical O minds out there that would find ways to use O’lineman to run interference/pick plays, etc.
 
SurfnFish said:
will never understand the drafting or trading for 'franchise QB's' and not surrounding them with the best possible O-line. My fave QB since Joe Montana was Andrew Luck, whose brilliant career potential was crushed playing behind a dismal OL that turned what became a shortened career into a series of scramble plays, desperate QB runs and brutal concussion sacks.
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Luck was his own worst enemy though. Dude would hold the ball forever. There was an element of hero ball in his game. He finally figured it out in his last year and then he retired. He is something of an anomaly as most QB's sack rates don't vary much over time, which tenlls me that the QB is the entity generally most responsible for sacks.

A QB getting 40+ million has got to make himself worth it by making low salary linemen or recievers better. If you spend all your money on a QB and linemen you won't have any to pay good defensive players and you will lose that way. You may also find yourself throwing 50 times a game and that leads to QB hits too. If you look at which QB's get sacked a lot, the list gets repetitive. The poster child for making an O-line look bad is Russell Wilson. In 11 years he has been sacked less that 40 time twice. His sack rate has been high (9%+) on three different teams. This year he has played 4 games and sacked 12 times. In 7 games, behind the same line, with the same OC, Justin Fields has been sacked 16 times. My point is that some QB's will always get sacked because they hold the ball. Joe Burrow and Deshaun Watson come to mind. Some get sacked far less like Warner, Manning, Brady, and even Flacco.

Sacks and hits are a product of the scheme, O-line and QB. In Lucks case, it is curious that his sacks went down his last year which I believe was his first without Pep Hamilton as OC. My point is that the scheme that he ran may well have been more of the problem than the line.

I always liked Luck. He was 0-6 vs. my beloeved Patsies. Belichik would confuse him like no other (except possibly Goff) and Luck would throw a big pick nearly every time. It was beautiful.
 
If they didn't have the illegal Man down field penalty, the offense should/would score on each drive, and/or the defensive penalties would propel the team down field and eventually to the one yard line.

The game would look nothing like it does today without the illegal Man down field penalty.
 
Porter2 said:
If they allowed it think of all the magical O minds out there that would find ways to use O’lineman to run interference/pick plays, etc.
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Peyton00 said:
If they didn't have the illegal Man down field penalty, the offense should/would score on each drive, and/or the defensive penalties would propel the team down field and eventually to the one yard line.

The game would look nothing like it does today without the illegal Man down field penalty.
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Not sure I buy these arguments. Now I'm sure I don't know the game as well as some (many?), but there would still be rules against pick plays (already an illegal play), etc. Lineman would still need to drop back on pass plays to protect the QB/passing lanes. Lineman would not just bolt downfield. Not sure how the game would be entirely different.

More than a few screen plays and RPOs are currently reversed due to this rule, where the lineman had absolutely no impact on the play. I'm sure the brains behind all this could tinker/change with the rule without huge change to the game as it is played.

Go Three Peat!
 
Canuck from Kansas said:
Not sure I buy these arguments. Now I'm sure I don't know the game as well as some (many?), but there would still be rules against pick plays (already an illegal play), etc. Lineman would still need to drop back on pass plays to protect the QB/passing lanes. Lineman would not just bolt downfield. Not sure how the game would be entirely different.

More than a few screen plays and RPOs are currently reversed due to this rule, where the lineman had absolutely no impact on the play. I'm sure the brains behind all this could tinker/change with the rule without huge change to the game as it is played.

Go Three Peat!
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I've seen several iterations of your Three Peat...Peet...Peete...

Which one is it?...
 
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Canuck from Kansas said:
All, I like to mix things up, keeps the defense on its heels ;)

Allez TroisPierre
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or...Hazlo Tres

whereas Mahomes is a magician at the position, at this point the Lions are looking like a juggernaut ready to roll over anybody, anywhere

going to be interesting playoffs, almost a relief the Niners are stumbling so badly, too damn hard to root for a team that barely makes it in and then get it's ass handed to them on the first playoff game.
 
_WW_ said:
Running play = D line has to react to the O line.
Passing play = O line has to react to the D line.
That's why a powerful run game is such an advantage and makes the play action work. But again, the finite pool thing.
One of the stupidest penalties is the illegal man down field. You are supposed to move the ball in that direction but there is a limit on how many guys can go in that direction? Really fucks up the RPO unless they can all read the QB's mind.
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I have hated the 'illegal man downfield' bull shit since the beginning of black and white television. Even the sound of it is offensive calling a guy illegal. And a note to NFL refs: Having an arm around the waist of a receiver before the ball gets there is interference, not a dance move.
 
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