Let's talk about big traditional flies on long leaders

the_grube

the_grube

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I'm interested in hearing others setups and experience with this. What rods, lines, leader-lengths/materials/recipes are you using?

To help define terms a big fly would be roughly a TMC 7999 in #2 or larger/heavier and a long leader would be roughly the rod length or greater.
 
I guess that pretty much describes all of my steelhead fishing. I tied a whole box of size 6 flies for the Deschutes where I fished until water temps got too high.. never got a grab..
I spent a week on the Umpqua fishing 1/0s and hooked 6 fish.

This year I used a 12 ft 8in 8 weight.. no it's not too much rod for summer runs.
A home made leader 15' ending in 10 lb maxima. Fished a 510 compact scandi. With pvc running line

Nothing really special about the set up, just manipulating the line to give yourself as slow of a swing as possible in varied currents
 
Rob Allen said:
I guess that pretty much describes all of my steelhead fishing. I tied a whole box of size 6 flies for the Deschutes where I fished until water temps got too high.. never got a grab..
I spent a week on the Umpqua fishing 1/0s and hooked 6 fish.

This year I used a 12 ft 8in 8 weight.. no it's not too much rod for summer runs.
A home made leader 15' ending in 10 lb maxima. Fished a 510 compact scandi. With pvc running line

Nothing really special about the set up, just manipulating the line to give yourself as slow of a swing as possible in varied currents
Click to expand...
Thanks Rob. Any issues turning a 1/0 over with 10lb test... seems like a 'stouter' piece of tippet helps txfr energy better?
 
the_grube said:
Thanks Rob. Any issues turning a 1/0 over with 10lb test... seems like a 'stouter' piece of tippet helps txfr energy better?
Click to expand...

10lb maxima ultragreen is as still as anyone else's 16lb so no no issues with turn over

One problem i had, and this is my fault.. I bought a 12 foot 12lb extruded leader, then added 3 feet of the maxima 10lb. I broke two fish off as a result both broke on the extruded leaders tippet apparently their 12lb is considerably weaker than the 10lb maxima.
 
I've been getting into winter dry line stuff the last few years(after I catch a couple on tips ;)) and usually fish a McNeese #1, which is one of the heavier modern hooks. I'm fishing a Burky 8142 with a GF54 and a homemade leader that is in the 12-15' range(60/20/20 of 40#, 30#, 20#) with 12#UG tippet. That line has enough mass that casting isn't too big of an issue.

What I do find tricky is getting the fly up and out of the water so I can properly set my "anchor" for touch and go casting. I find I have to exaggerate my lift and really use my bottom hand on the sweep. It gets easier when I work out enough line to have a couple strips before lifting, I think they help get the fly up to the top of the water. I'm also typically throwing in a mend and letting my fly sink a bit and also fishing slower water, so that's probably my own fault. A snake roll does help get the fly out a little bit more than a single spey in my opinion.

I did just fish the D Sunday with this rig. The river was up but the temps were still in the upper 40s and clear so I ran the same rig but with a leader going down to 10# UG. Didn't really see much of a difference.

More than the size/weight of the fly, I really believe the bulk of the fly makes a difference. I tend to fish skinnier patterns, like the winters hope in varying color combos. I will fish some classic hair wings like a GBS but just tie them really sparse. Easier casting and better sink rate.
 
I'm really interested in fishing this way this winter. (I'll pull out the tips some too.) I was casting a GBS on a 2/0 TMC 7999 with about 14' of leader terminating in 12lb. What I found was that casting short was off the table other than overhead -- needed about 15' of the short-belly head out to get enough energy to turn that iron over. The other thing was that this style of terminal rig felt like putting my touch-n-go casts under a microscope; all the flaws get magnified. It's also amazing how deep a hair/feather wing on a big platform will sink, even in moderate currents if you know how to mend.
 
the_grube said:
I'm really interested in fishing this way this winter. (I'll pull out the tips some too.) I was casting a GBS on a 2/0 TMC 7999 with about 14' of leader terminating in 12lb. What I found was that casting short was off the table other than overhead -- needed about 15' of the short-belly head out to get enough energy to turn that iron over. The other thing was that this style of terminal rig felt like putting my touch-n-go casts under a microscope; all the flaws get magnified. It's also amazing how deep a hair/feather wing on a big platform will sink, even in moderate currents if you know how to mend.
Click to expand...

You're right, sinking the fly has never been the problem, keeping them down during the sw is the problem.

If I was to do this for winter fish. I'd use my 10 ft 8wt, a double taper line and a15 foot leader make my cast upstream and accross then make a series of stack mends that put the leader directly over they fly allowing it to sink faster then do whatever mending I needed to attain that slow swing. I am not sure this could be done with the same efficiency with a spey rod, at least not with the short bellied line common these days.
 
fatbillybob said:
Do you consider say a 10' polyleader + 4ft. of 12lb maxima fished on a 12-13' ft. a "long leader?"
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Sure we can chat about that setup. I'm not trying to exclude anyone with those definitions.
 
the_grube said:
Sure we can chat about that setup. I'm not trying to exclude anyone with those definitions.
Click to expand...

Well it works for me with scandi head. The polyleader is stout turns over anything. Straight short tippet 3-4ft turn flys over the rest of the way. When I used a Frimor style long tapered mono leader with tippet I just feel like I lacked control in the cast and the swing. That could be mental but you catch more fish when you have confidence in the setup.
 
Rob Allen said:
You're right, sinking the fly has never been the problem, keeping them down during the sw is the problem.

If I was to do this for winter fish. I'd use my 10 ft 8wt, a double taper line and a15 foot leader make my cast upstream and accross then make a series of stack mends that put the leader directly over they fly allowing it to sink faster then do whatever mending I needed to attain that slow swing. I am not sure this could be done with the same efficiency with a spey rod, at least not with the short bellied line common these days.
Click to expand...

I've been taught that rather than try and keep it low through out the swing, target a part of the swing and do all you can to get the depth and swing speed right for that spot. Sometimes its just a rock, sometimes its a section of shelf, etc. Can't say I've had enough success to confirm that 100% but it has helped me get the fish I have found.
 
Yard Sale said:
I've been taught that rather than try and keep it low through out the swing, target a part of the swing and do all you can to get the depth and swing speed right for that spot. Sometimes its just a rock, sometimes its a section of shelf, etc. Can't say I've had enough success to confirm that 100% but it has helped me get the fish I have found.
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I pretty much always fish a floating line and have had success fishing a long run as a series of many little spots. Think you have been there.
 
I'm curious the type of water you're typically fish with this? Mostly wide open runs on big rivers I presume? Not that I'll be changing up my single hand skagit for the smaller pocket water I love fishing in winter any time soon.
 
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clarkman said:
I'm curious the type of water you're typically fish with this? Mostly wide open runs on big rivers I presume? Not that I'll be changing up my single hand skagit for the smaller pocket water I love fishing in winter any time soon.
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I can’t wait for soft inside seams in high water. That’s the only place I’ve really done any good with the dry line in winter.
 
Rob Allen said:
I guess that pretty much describes all of my steelhead fishing. I tied a whole box of size 6 flies for the Deschutes where I fished until water temps got too high.. never got a grab..
I spent a week on the Umpqua fishing 1/0s and hooked 6 fish.

This year I used a 12 ft 8in 8 weight.. no it's not too much rod for summer runs.
A home made leader 15' ending in 10 lb maxima. Fished a 510 compact scandi. With pvc running line

Nothing really special about the set up, just manipulating the line to give yourself as slow of a swing as possible in varied currents
Click to expand...
So i maybe all messed up memory wise, but do you feel that you get good hook sets using single hooks as opposed to a fly with a trailing hook which seems to be the popular way to fish now ?
Seems like back in the old days I didn’t have a problem fishing and hooking fish on single hooks.
 
skyrise said:
So i maybe all messed up memory wise, but do you feel that you get good hook sets using single hooks as opposed to a fly with a trailing hook which seems to be the popular way to fish now ?
Seems like back in the old days I didn’t have a problem fishing and hooking fish on single hooks.
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I fish far too few trailing hook flies to have an opinion.
That said such flies are illegal on the North Umpqua in the summer.

Nowadays I think a person will do best while showing as many fish flies they actually notice.
I think big flies get more grabs than small flies at least on larger rivers.
 
skyrise said:
So i maybe all messed up memory wise, but do you feel that you get good hook sets using single hooks as opposed to a fly with a trailing hook which seems to be the popular way to fish now ?
Seems like back in the old days I didn’t have a problem fishing and hooking fish on single hooks.
Click to expand...
I get equally good hook sets using single hooks as I do with trailing hooks. The difference that I notice is that my landing rate of hooked fish is better with trailing hooks because I used shorter shank octopus style hooks in that application. A lot of my single hook flies are on longer shank hooks, and my experience is that more hooked fish are lost when played on longer shank hooks. The best luck at landing hooked fish I've ever had with single hooks were flies tied on Mustad 3399A hooks which are considered "standard" length shanks as opposed to 2x, 3x, or 4x long shanks.
 
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