Lake Hoot Owls?

[Flymph]

I tried to explain to a couple of guys that it would be wise to wait until Sept. for lake fishing. The lack of dissolved oxygen in warmer water diminishes the chances of survival dramatically. This did not seem to deter them. There are no regulations stopping them and my explanation and advice were ignored. Most anglers on this forum have a set point where they leave the still waters alone until fall that settles in somewhere near 65 degrees. It has also been brought up on this forum, "Why not a hoot owl for lakes" and I whole heartedly agree with this possibility. What are your thoughts and what do you think about petitioning the Dept. of Fish and Wildlife?

Obviously this would not apply to bass and other spiny ray lakes.

 

[RCF]

Special regulation and C&R lakes definitely.

P&T lakes with decent potential for holdover - would be nice for sure.

P&T lakes where there is a small to no chance for holdovers - fish them out...

Lakes that are overpopulated or have invasive species - probably not.

My wife and I were volunteer lake stewards for a smaller King County local lake for a number of years. Learned a lot. That nearby lake is P&T and privately stocked. The holdover rate is quite high. Because of access, pressure is not huge. That helps a lot for sure.

There will always be by-catch opportunities. I have caught perch, crappie, bass, trout, and catfish on one pass around the lake on the same fly.

It would be very troublesome to manage lakes. Heck just figuring out the regulations is a monumental effort. Emergency closures - HAH!

Taking away family vacations and chance to catch fish and develop those bonds - lots of luck!

Waffling? Yup!

I will just stick to my standards - protect the fish!

 

[troutpocket]

If we’re talking about lakes on the state’s stocking plan, I wouldn’t support a closure for warm temps. That’s what you’re describing isn’t it? Or are you suggesting to limit fishing to early mornings, before the heat of the day, like a river hoot owl regulation?

I would not support a summer closure because most recreational anglers are no threat to the fishery. If they want to try for trout in bathtub temperature water, it’s not likely they will have much success anyway. And somehow our trout lakes make it through because they often fish quite well in the fall.

In general, I don’t want to give WDFW more ideas for limiting fishing on stocked waters.

 

[Irafly]

Hoot Owl for wild fish trapped in low oxygenated rivers with no thermoclines, knock yourself out. Hoot Owl for hatchery stocked trout in lakes with thermoclines that fluctuate oxygen levels based on more than just temperature… nah.

 

[Rob Allen]

No more rules, even if they are good ideas.

 

[Wayne Kohan]

If you are talking about rainbows that are put in a lake yearly by WDFW where they will never reproduce, I'm not sure what you are protecting by shutting down the fishing. I get it for streams that aren't routinely stocked with invasive species.

 

[krusty]

In addition to the complexity of lake structure (bathymetry), residence time, and thermocline, it would be very costly to develop a temperature monitoring program to rationally implement a hoot owl regulatory framework for the very large number of lakes, all of which display considerably different hydrogeolgic characteristics. Most lakes are lucky to see only a very few limnological surveys (which are extremely expensive and time consuming) over the course of decades.

The dynamic and relatively homogeneous thermal nature of non-impounded moving water, and the existence of a vast real-time network of USGS monitoring stations, makes hoot owl regulatory implementation much simpler in that environment.

 

[RCF]

Some recent observations...

In May and June, fish were rising all over the lake, albeit perch, crappie or trout. Trout leaping out of the lake was common place. Eagles catching lots of fish. Swallows were everywhere scouting up flies from the hatch.

Then the heat wave hit...

Now almost no fish rising. Eagles are not around either. Swallows are still very active so hatches are occurring.

Anyone else seeing this?

A self-imposed hoot owl implementation?

This is my hint that Trout should not be fished for...

 

[Dustin Chromers]

This state conditions anglers to the lowest form by specializing in circus openers for put and take lakes where the catch is ultimately wasted in a freezer only to be repeated next year. This is Washington State angling culture that is instilled by a department that caters to the lowest form of angling. We don't ticket snagging either. What makes anyone think the department actually gives a shit about quality fishing or the health of a resource?

 

[Flymph]

The Dept. of Fish and Wildlife can be more receptive than some think. Some years ago I petitioned to have a local put and take lake reduce the very liberal state limit of trout down to two fish. My logic was simple. The lake produced 2 to 4 pound fish because of its healthy ecology. In addition the lake was at an altitude which "back then" held its surface temps below 65 degrees throughout the summer. My logic was why not extend a fishery with a lower limit instead of allowing for it to be fished out. Local folks "ALL" signed my petition because they agreed that two, 2-lb fish were all that any angler needed and loved the idea of the extended fishery.

Since then I have not been able to convince the Carbon industry or their constituents to stop warming the planet! If you live in the NCW you see the results of summer kill in the fall as the shoreline shallows are littered with decaying carcasses.

The lakes are all we have! There are no streams, no Puget Sound, and no cold water releases from dams.

Solving the real issue is much like picking out and timing the rise of the largest fish in the pool!

 

[Dustin Chromers]

The Dept. of Fish and Wildlife can be more receptive than some think. Some years ago I petitioned to have a local put and take lake reduce the very liberal state limit of trout down to two fish. My logic was simple. The lake produced 2 to 4 pound fish because of its healthy ecology. In addition the lake was at an altitude which "back then" held its surface temps below 65 degrees throughout the summer. My logic was why not extend a fishery with a lower limit instead of allowing for it to be fished out. Local folks "ALL" signed my petition because they agreed that two, 2-lb fish were all that any angler needed and loved the idea of the extended fishery.

Since then I have not been able to convince the Carbon industry or their constituents to stop warming the planet! If you live in the NCW you see the results of summer kill in the fall as the shoreline shallows are littered with decaying carcasses.

The lakes are all we have! There are no streams, no Puget Sound, and no cold water releases from dams.

Solving the real issue is much like picking out and timing the rise of the largest fish in the pool!

Many more lakes should be open year round and have a lower limit. The masterbait glitter gravy crew tend to steer clear of those lakes as well which is a nice bonus. Nothing against those who fish this way as many get their start by bait fishing but it's hard on the system and resource. It would be great to see more quality lowland lakes on the Westside with regulations that provide for good experiences and open year round as to avoid that circus mentality the department lives for.

 

[krusty]

Some recent observations...

In May and June, fish were rising all over the lake, albeit perch, crappie or trout. Trout leaping out of the lake was common place. Eagles catching lots of fish. Swallows were everywhere scouting up flies from the hatch.

Then the heat wave hit...

Now almost no fish rising. Eagles are not around either. Swallows are still very active so hatches are occurring.

Anyone else seeing this?

A self-imposed hoot owl implementation?

This is my hint that Trout should not be fished for...

The expanding use of fishfinders, which nowadays are extremely affordable and uniformly provide a temperature reading, make responsible trout C&R flyfishing easy....as the spring progresses you observe the slowly increasing water temp and know that with the warming weather the end is near. Time to fish higher elevation lakes and even pause fishing on those waters when they warm excessively.....and to think about the autumn flyfishing season.

And yes...although the lakewater below the thermocline may well be below trout flyfishing lethal range temperature and fishing deep may be productive, the surface is where you'll be fighting that trout and subjecting the critter to an unnecessary death.

 

[RCF]

The expanding use of fishfinders, which nowadays are extremely affordable and uniformly provide a temperature reading, make responsible trout C&R flyfishing easy....as the spring progresses you observe the slowly increasing water temp and know that with the warming weather the end is near. Time to fish higher elevation lakes and even pause fishing on those waters when they warm excessively.....and to think about the autumn flyfishing season.

And yes...although the lakewater below the thermocline may well be below trout flyfishing lethal range temperature and fishing deep may be productive, the surface is where you'll be fighting that trout and subjecting the critter to an unnecessary death.

Completely agree!

Having been a volunteer lake steward for this King County lake for a number of years, my wife and I took water quality samples, measured visibility, and took temperature readings at various depths several times a month from spring through fall. We determined that there is a 55 degree thermocline at ~15' down and another one of 45 degrees at ~35' down. These remained constant no matter what the summer time lake surface temps were.

What surprised me this year is the huge change in fish surface activity after the heat wave. Been on/near this lake for 25 years and never have seen this before....