Could also be a sharp burr where the wire was cut during manufacture, which then cuts your dropper line when it is put under tension.
Issue with Breaking Off Second Fly
- Thread starter ifsteve
- Start date
Could also be a sharp burr where the wire was cut during manufacture, which then cuts your dropper line when it is put under tension.
I wondered about the hook eye not being "smooth" - I've had issues with one brand of tippet rings (I used and improved clinch knot when tying the leader and tippet to a tippet ring) where it seems the tippet ring cut or wore the tippet (and once the leader connection).
ifsteve
Steelhead
Couple of follow on comments based upon some thoughts posted here.
1. I don't think its in any way the hook eye itself. If that was an issue then I'd be losing the upper fly in some cases and for sure when fishing it as a single. And that just isn't happening.
2. I will not tie the dropper to the hook of a barbless fly. I have lost too many fish doing that.
I do use the method of tying on the upper fly with a long tag end that I then tie the dropper to. But that is only doable when you start out with two flies in the first place. When I already have a fly tied on I just can't fathom cutting it off to retie to give me a long tag end for tying on the second fly. But maybe that would be less frustrating than breaking off the dropper fly.....LOL.
Think the first step is to just make sure I am using no slip loop knots on both flies and see if that reduces the issue.
1. I don't think its in any way the hook eye itself. If that was an issue then I'd be losing the upper fly in some cases and for sure when fishing it as a single. And that just isn't happening.
2. I will not tie the dropper to the hook of a barbless fly. I have lost too many fish doing that.
I do use the method of tying on the upper fly with a long tag end that I then tie the dropper to. But that is only doable when you start out with two flies in the first place. When I already have a fly tied on I just can't fathom cutting it off to retie to give me a long tag end for tying on the second fly. But maybe that would be less frustrating than breaking off the dropper fly.....LOL.
Think the first step is to just make sure I am using no slip loop knots on both flies and see if that reduces the issue.
I have definitely lost the dropper off a bad hook eye because the dropper was tied on the hook eye gap side. Is it possible the dropper fly was tied on that side?
You wouldn't lose the upper fly because the dropper knot would block it from slipping thru the gap.
Also, the upper fly typically pulls straighter or more true than a dropper. The upper fly usually stays more in line with the tippet.
When I've had some suspect hook eyes I make sure the dropper knot is on the solid side. I've even clipped off the point/top fly just to re-tie it on the gap side so the dropper is not on the gap side. And some don't have a big enough gap, but like @Chucker mentioned, some hooks have a bad cut resulting in a rough terminal end at that gap.
The only other thing I can think of is maybe your improved clinch knot for the dropper is not quite as good as the point/top fly. I'm not saying you tie crappy knots. Haha! I'm saying I have tied crappy clinch knots on the dropper fly because the tippet to the point/top fly is in play and it's a different angle and all of that. I've tied some very suspect dropper imp clinched knots. It's easy to do.
Keep us updated on how it goes with the loop knots.
You wouldn't lose the upper fly because the dropper knot would block it from slipping thru the gap.
Also, the upper fly typically pulls straighter or more true than a dropper. The upper fly usually stays more in line with the tippet.
When I've had some suspect hook eyes I make sure the dropper knot is on the solid side. I've even clipped off the point/top fly just to re-tie it on the gap side so the dropper is not on the gap side. And some don't have a big enough gap, but like @Chucker mentioned, some hooks have a bad cut resulting in a rough terminal end at that gap.
The only other thing I can think of is maybe your improved clinch knot for the dropper is not quite as good as the point/top fly. I'm not saying you tie crappy knots. Haha! I'm saying I have tied crappy clinch knots on the dropper fly because the tippet to the point/top fly is in play and it's a different angle and all of that. I've tied some very suspect dropper imp clinched knots. It's easy to do.
Keep us updated on how it goes with the loop knots.
You can tie to the line above the knot to your upper fly using a uni knot. That also works for adding a dropper to an existing leader, or replacing a dropper that has become too short.
I have not tried this with fishing line/leaders/tippet, but I wonder if an alpine butterfly knot would work to create a tie in point for a dropper without removing the existing fly?
How to Tie a Butterfly Knot? Uses & Easy Step-By-Step Instructions https://share.google/9PkfI2UUdJTUYp8CU
Pink Nighty
Legend
Yesterday I ran out of tag end and couldn't change my point fly. I cut off the point fly and cut the dropper line at the knot. I then took the dropper line with the fly still attached and tied a new double surgeons with it. New point fly was on and fishing in about 3 minutes.
ifsteve
Steelhead
Nice sales pitch LOL. If it was the material then I'd be having breakoff issues under all circumstances which isn't happening. I do like Trouthunter stuff though!
I think you are on to something
Even if not a burr, would a gap wide enough to allow any knot's loop that manages to even partially find the gap be exposed to a 90° angle at the end of the wire that could cut the knot's loop leaving no curly-q evidence of knot failure?
I had the 90° angles of poorly made tippet rings that were shaped more like metal washers cutting 5X tippet knot loops like butter even from the resistance of missed hooksets of nymphs from 3' of water. No "burrs", just not radiused, round wire rings.
I've seen two videos that mentioned significant weakness in a dropper tag where the dropper comes up out of the dropper knot to minimize tangles instead of downward. Reasons stated a sustained pull puts a sharp bend into the tippet at the knot reducing tippet tensile strength, and may even invert the knot reducing its internal strength.
Also I wonder if a nonslip loop in the upper end of a dropper tag, Girth-hitched around the tippet in front of a point fly would work like #2 in the diagram, tying into the PF hook eye. It would be a lot easier to tie than fixed-length surgeons or blood knot tags onto a leader. And it’s a quick on-off for dropper fly and dropper tag changes...
I'll have to try it next time I'm out.
That totally makes sense - although I've never had one break off.....good heads up though, appreciate it.
I bet your idea would work, I just can't get on board with having two lines right by they eye of the fly. I'm stuck thinking it makes it more likely the fish won't eat or will but will quickly eject. It's probably just an unsubstantiated idea that's stuck in my mind.