NFR How's the housing market where you live?

Non-fishing related
What I would really like to see is legislation passed increasing property taxes on short term rentals to 5X... that would free up some single family homes… vacation rentals have a time and place but, popping up in average neighborhoods is complete bullshit. Sorry but singe family residential should not equate to commercial.
 
Last edited:
Scottybs said:
One of the greatest issues I have and not trying to get hyper political is the county/school/city/etc continuing to push more and more levies and such into property taxes... blows my mind. It will really bite into most folks discretionary income. Maybe well intended but I think the unintended consequences are going to bite back. Hell my truck has a 36 gallon and tank and I drive just outside of town to a Lummi owned 76 and they have the best deal on gas, but when I fill her up with premium, ouch, I scratch my head and empathize with the average Joe and Josephine.
Click to expand...

In King County 58% to 66% of the property taxes (depending on where you live) are for schools in 2021-2022. In the area I live the school enrollment has been going down for several years and they want to raise taxes for new schools - an additional 7% increase. WHY? Just the amount of additional money they will receive for property value increases since the pandemic started should should have their coffers overflowing...

My property taxes are 60% of my Social Security check. Wish there was a better ceiling/control or lock-in maximum amount when one starts receiving Social Security so budgets can be planned for so that it does not force us to move.

California did it and it has not worked out well: "There are other factors that help to keep California's tax rates low, too. For starters, the property taxes residents pay are based on the purchase price of the property, and the 2% annual increase cap helps keep the rates low for homeowners." Maybe there is a better methodology?
 
ARecher said:
Welp. Got notice today that our rent is going up (by $600 a month). Not really much of a message here, just bitching.
Click to expand...
Wow. Makes me glad my wife convinced me to buy—even though it turned out to be a year before the market crashed. Still paying on the mortgage and not sure if that’ll be over by the time I retire. Still, I’m certain rent in Shoreline is higher than what we’re paying now.
 
SurfnFish said:
Our current home, which we got a great deal on via a cash offer just before the market blew up, has gone up by 100% in two years. Aside from recession sags, or a cataclysmic event, we're in the new norm for housing prices. Demand is intense, and jobs never paid better. Inventory will be an ongoing problem as folks dig in and hold on.

What appeared to be a game changer, the mobility of the techie work from home movement, may be less so than projected, as many of the tech companies are starting to return workers to the office, and telling those who moved to less expensive areas their pay will be adjusted accordingly, creating quite the backlash among the techies that thought they could have it both ways...make bay area wages while living out of state rural.
Biggest sign of the number of techies that have moved to our neck of the woods in the past two years? The number of pristine Sprinter 4x4 vans tooling about, the must have "I'm an outdoorsman" icon for the skinny jeans/neckbeard crew..
Click to expand...
The pressure to return to the office thing sounds like something to keep an eye on. Bosses like having their serfs around—if anything, to justify their own existence. In reality, the bosses that want workers to be in office are probably the ones that upper Corporate should shed-off.

I know a guy who took over or left his father’s small tech business and opened shop in Oregon. He hired his own crew but only saw them maybe once a week. Everything else was by phone or online. There was no office. By the time he retired and sold, he was supplying British Petroleum with digital diagnostic machines. Yeah, he wrote the original software.

But, I would be surprised if Bosses would be that willing to give up having serfs milling around them. At some point, the real estate market might respond to the benefit of locals. Unless Capital investment firms jump in to scrape up the housing for profit.
 
Got this in the mail today. Monthly stats supplied by some experts in my area.
SF

10133005-6EF9-4870-8E37-76083FCC1ABD.jpeg
 
Scottybs said:
What I would really like to see is legislation passed increasing property taxes on short term rentals to 5X... that would free up some single family homes… vacation rentals have a time and place but, popping up in average neighborhoods is complete bullshit. Sorry but singe family residential should not equate to commercial.
Click to expand...
Although I see your point, that opinion is actually misguided.

I've been in the development sphere for almost a decade now, and can tell you not only that STR owners are not the issue, but asking the government to crack down on them will have the reverse affect as intended.

What DOES work and DOESNT get pushed for hard enough is up-zoning. Developers chase margins, so if a legally permitted niche exists, they'll fill it with housing. Problem is that local municipalities plus rampant NIMBYISM shoot down damn near every small sfr, multi-fam, and mixed use project that makes its way to the county planning board. Happens in WA, it's happening in MT.

Hell, here in Whitefish a developer proposed adding over 300 doors of multifam and small sfr, only to be shut down after the local billionaire club decided they didn't want any riff raff in their neighborhood...5 acre lots only...

More government is quite literally never the solution, if it was, CA and WA wouldn't have housing shortages.

As a whole, we've been playing catch-up since the crash, when the building sector was frozen for 4 years straight. Telling property owners how they can/can't use real estate paid for with their own money and credit is fundamentally un-American. Telling the government to get tf out of the way and start granting some permits and increasing density is the solution.
 
RCF said:
In King County 58% to 66% of the property taxes (depending on where you live) are for schools in 2021-2022. In the area I live the school enrollment has been going down for several years and they want to raise taxes for new schools - an additional 7% increase. WHY? Just the amount of additional money they will receive for property value increases since the pandemic started should should have their coffers overflowing...

My property taxes are 60% of my Social Security check. Wish there was a better ceiling/control or lock-in maximum amount when one starts receiving Social Security so budgets can be planned for so that it does not force us to move.

California did it and it has not worked out well: "There are other factors that help to keep California's tax rates low, too. For starters, the property taxes residents pay are based on the purchase price of the property, and the 2% annual increase cap helps keep the rates low for homeowners." Maybe there is a better methodology?
Click to expand...
School capital bonds and levy rates are based on the assessed value of the properties within the district boundaries you live in. The higher the assessed value the less it costs the tax payer per thousand of the assessed value of their home/property. In other words, in property rich districts you can raise a lot of money w/ minimal tax hikes. The district runs a bond or levy for a particular amount, if the assessed valuation goes up in the district, your rate per thousand could actually go down. Your home must be worth a lot. Depending on your age and income, there are breaks for those in their golden years.
 
I have family in the Flathead Valley and family that has lived in CA’s Inland Empire. Parts of the inland empire looked as rural as the Flathead Valley when I was a kid in the 80s. We need more housing units practically everywhere and smart growth is a good idea. It is tough to build your way out of a housing crisis, especially in really desirable locales, without having to build so much that it impacts the resource. My guess is most people arriving in the Flathead Valley recently are fleeing areas that have become ‘too crowded’ and are moving there for quality of life over solely lower cost. I live in a similar scenario as thr Flathead Valley but in CA and we have a housing crisis pricing longtime locals out. It is so severe that businesses are closing because they have no staff. We need housing and are looking at upzoning/incentives for long term rentals, new devlopment etc. btw i have worked in the conservation sphere for a long while.
 
Last edited:
It's not just here. I recently returned from a 3-week trip to Ireland. I spoke with somebody in Galway who said that none of her friends (she was 35) could afford homes and were all living at their parents' places. I hear an almost identical story from somebody in Dublin. OTOH, if you want a smallish place in County Donegal, you can still get that for a song. Donegal is on the NW tip of Ireland, and even by Irish standards, has shitty weather - I'm sure pretty similar to living in Forks, Wa., but rocky and barren, not forested. It is wild and beautiful. It seemed perfect for a borderline hermit like myself, but my wife would go crazy after a couple weeks.
 
John Svahn said:
I have family in the Flathead Valley and family that has lived in CA’s Inland Empire. Parts of the inland empire looked as rural as the Flathead Valley when I was a kid in the 80s. We need more housing units practically everywhere and smart growth is a good idea. It is tough to build your way out of a housing crisis, especially in really desirable locales, without having to build so much that it impacts the resource. My guess is most people arriving in the Flathead Valley recently are fleeing areas that have become ‘too crowded’ and are moving there for quality of life over solely lower cost. I live in a similar scenario as thr Flathead Valley but in CA and we have a housing crisis pricing longtime locals out. It is so severe that businesses are closing because they have no staff. We need housing and are looking at upzoning/incentives for long term rentals, new devlopment etc. btw i have worked in the conservation sphere for a long while.
Click to expand...
John, you bring up a really important point about development in the Mountain West. One of the main reasons I advocate for increased density and up-zoning in historically SFR neighborhoods is that without it, critical winter range for elk, mule deer, bighorn sheep etc, get's turned into suburbia.

Instead of having one continuous strip of sprawling subdivisions from Flathead Lake to Whitefish, up-zoning will allow us to preserve and protect the remaining agricultural and native grasslands in the valley. I'd love to see more condos and townhomes in Kalispell proper than single family homes from the early 1900s sitting on .25 acre lots. City/county planners here have their work cut out for them but I think sustainability needs to be issue number one.
 
Man…I read all 22 pages. I’m one of those guys that makes money doing nothing (financial advisor) that was mentioned in the early pages of this deal so I had the time😀. I kid….

I rarely read a thread about topics like this one on chat board‘s dedicated to topics I typically use to distract myself from work. On occasion, when I do skim through one, I end up annoyed at the stupid shit people say. I wish I wasn’t judgey like that but I am.

Almost all of you offered some great perspective from a broad range of experiences and it was well worth the time. You guys are some smart cats!

I’m not old but no longer young. I feel like I can relate a little to both ends of the spectrum when I read through all of your experiences. Thanks for taking the time to say what you have said.

My wife and I recently move from Spokane to C’da, ID. We both spent 40 years in Spokane. We are patiently waiting for the dust to settle in this real estate market. I started my career as an investment advisor in 1998. If I have learned anything over that time it’s that it’s never “different this time”.
 
When I bought my home in 2011 from a fellow co-worker for 130g, it was appraised for under 100g by the county auditor (the owner knew what he invested in the house and I didn't argue). These days, I can't hardly go a day without a letter or phone call from realtors telling me they can sell for 300g, easy.

True story, in early 2020 I bought a car and the dealer and I were discussing my monthly mortgage payment. When I told him it was under $900, his head dropped down and almost hit the desk like a shot dog. I still smile at that one.😊
 
Since I started the thread things have changed a bit. There is a little more inventory coming on market. Our agents said this is to be expected as now through Sept is typically when you see highest inventory levels. Combine that with rising interest rates and things are sitting for a few days instead of going in hours. We are even starting to see a few "price reduced" notifications.

Thanks to whoever said early on in this thread to be patient. While my wife was getting house horny you confirmed my gut feeling. There is just too much uncertainty and it really doesn't make financial sense right now. She'll continue to look at the MLS every day as she enjoys it but for now we are sitting tight. And I'm fine with that. We have a great house in an awesome neighborhood and we are not house poor.

It will be interesting to see what happens in the coming months.
 
ianpadron said:
Although I see your point, that opinion is actually misguided.

I've been in the development sphere for almost a decade now, and can tell you not only that STR owners are not the issue, but asking the government to crack down on them will have the reverse affect as intended.

What DOES work and DOESNT get pushed for hard enough is up-zoning. Developers chase margins, so if a legally permitted niche exists, they'll fill it with housing. Problem is that local municipalities plus rampant NIMBYISM shoot down damn near every small sfr, multi-fam, and mixed use project that makes its way to the county planning board. Happens in WA, it's happening in MT.

Hell, here in Whitefish a developer proposed adding over 300 doors of multifam and small sfr, only to be shut down after the local billionaire club decided they didn't want any riff raff in their neighborhood...5 acre lots only...

More government is quite literally never the solution, if it was, CA and WA wouldn't have housing shortages.

As a whole, we've been playing catch-up since the crash, when the building sector was frozen for 4 years straight. Telling property owners how they can/can't use real estate paid for with their own money and credit is fundamentally un-American. Telling the government to get tf out of the way and start granting some permits and increasing density is the solution.
Click to expand...
My family is in the title insurance industry, STR’s are part of the problem. You are also correct in your piece of the pie. It is a multi-faceted issue and will take cuts from different directions. We had some people “miss“in their CCR’s that STR’s were forbidden and proceeded to rent their place out anyway, luckily our gently enforced HOA decided to go after them… end result… house was sold, the next door neighbor worked in a security sensitive occupation, and I’m sure he wasn’t happy to see a new car in the driveway every weekend. There is a place for vacation rentals, but not in every neighborhood.
 
Last edited:
Big Tuna said:
School capital bonds and levy rates are based on the assessed value of the properties within the district boundaries you live in. The higher the assessed value the less it costs the tax payer per thousand of the assessed value of their home/property. In other words, in property rich districts you can raise a lot of money w/ minimal tax hikes. The district runs a bond or levy for a particular amount, if the assessed valuation goes up in the district, your rate per thousand could actually go down. Your home must be worth a lot. Depending on your age and income, there are breaks for those in their golden years.
Click to expand...
Several of the schools in my city here in So. King are/were in desperate need of repair and refurbishment. 3 of the elementary schools were built in the "California Plan", which no longer meets state safety code for schools.

Our teachers seem to be paid reasonably, there doesnt seem to be the complaints of pay disparity that Seattle Teachers Union seem to always have, so , the levies must be working well.

Now, add in asbestos abatement and expansion for increase in student body in two of the high school/ middle schools, and it starts adding up quick. However there are limits to what homeowners are willing to ante up, and with the recent rejections of several school levies locally, i think we've seen the limit reached.

Many of my younger coworkers who own their home tell me they are glad they bought when they did, and are making do with what they have even though they've outgrown their home.

Again, that's locally. Not saying it's the same where anyone else lives.
 
Last edited:
joefromchicago said:
When I bought my home in 2011 from a fellow co-worker for 130g, it was appraised for under 100g by the county auditor (the owner knew what he invested in the house and I didn't argue). These days, I can't hardly go a day without a letter or phone call from realtors telling me they can sell for 300g, easy.

True story, in early 2020 I bought a car and the dealer and I were discussing my monthly mortgage payment. When I told him it was under $900, his head dropped down and almost hit the desk like a shot dog. I still smile at that one.😊
Click to expand...
P.S.
My mortgage lender recently sent me an offer of a low-interest 30 year mortgage that would have dropped my monthly payment to $404 dollars. He may have committed suicide right there if I had layed that number on him.😉
 
Well, some are,fighting back against the Investors it seems;


CNBC Television: Home owners' associations fight back against big-time investors buying up homes.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top