Carnivores?

C

Chadk

Life of the Party
Any else here experienced with the "Carnivore Diet"?

I've been doing this for just over a year now. Life transforming to say the least.

For those who don't know, it is a high fat high protein diet. Nothing else (if you are strict). Animal based products only. Primarily beef, eggs, butter, bacon. Then chicken, fish, pork, dairy, etc. Water only (or electrolytes mixed in). Some start adding a bit to that (Keto or dirty-carnivore...) and allow things like coffee, spices, sauces (low/no sugar), etc. You also stick with beef tallow, ghee, bacon grease/lard for cooking. No seed oils or oils that are liquid at room temp for the most part (some continue using some olive oil and/or avocado oil).

A big part of it is the "elimination diet" approach. So many common foods today are inflammatory - causing things ranging from arthritis, heartburn, skin issues, joint pain, sleep issues, mental fog, lack of energy, etc. So a big focus, especially in the beginning, is eliminating anything not strictly beef, butter, eggs (some people have issues with eggs, some beef, etc. Not all react the same way - so some if it is trial and error).

Anyway, the point of my post is focused on back-country eating. What are some good 'carnivore friendly' foods for backpacking? My usual freeze dried meals (Peak, Mtn House, etc) are out. I can do beef jerky, pepperoni, etc. I could pack in steak, eggs, bacon - but weight and spoilage are concerns. As I plan for next spring-fall, what are some options I'm missing? Needs to have high fat calories for maximum energy.

Anyone ever make or buy pre-made pemmican? I think that is probably the answer. Maybe some pork rinds, jerky, and hard salami. Moon cheese?
 
To be helpful: salmon jerky is my go-to. I make a lot every year.

Potentially less helpful: I go over this a lot in my coaching job due to our nutrition programs. There's a lot of benefit in cutting sugars and refined carbohydrates and you're likely feeling those benefits in a profound way. But our gut biome and beyond really need things like fiber, magnesium, vitamin c etc. I see no benefit to cutting fibrous vegetables, especially long term.
 
Yard Sale said:
That just can't be good for the heart. Everything in moderation...
Click to expand...
Been on it over a year and have never felt better. Lost over 40lbs, gaining muscle. Many other positive results. Researched it for quite a while before jumping in. Won't go back now. Know many who have been on it for 5-10+ years.
 
Evan B said:
To be helpful: salmon jerky is my go-to. I make a lot every year.

Potentially less helpful: I go over this a lot in my coaching job due to our nutrition programs. There's a lot of benefit in cutting sugars and refined carbohydrates and you're likely feeling those benefits in a profound way. But our gut biome and beyond really need things like fiber, magnesium, vitamin c etc. I see no benefit to cutting fibrous vegetables, especially long term.
Click to expand...
I researched it a lot. You need vit c and fiber when you are on the standard American diet. So many people eat so much processed garbage it is hard on the system. But meat is highly bio-available. I have no issues with not having any fiber. And yes, it took a while to get my gut microbes transitioned.

I do take a few supplements. Magnesium is one. Helps me avoid cramping mainly. My electrolytes I add to my water cover mineral/sea salt + potassium.
 
Zak said:
How do you avoid scurvy?
Click to expand...
People on the carnivore diet avoid scurvy primarily by eating fresh meat, especially organ meats and certain animal foods that contain enough vitamin C to prevent deficiency, combined with the fact that vitamin C requirements drop dramatically when you eat zero carbohydrates.

Here’s how it works in practice:

1. Fresh meat and organs contain vitamin C (yes, really)​

Although muscle meat has very little vitamin C, certain animal foods are decent sources:
  • Liver: ~10–25 mg per 100g (beef, chicken, pork liver)
  • Kidney: ~10–15 mg per 100g
  • Spleen, brain, lung: also contain small but meaningful amounts
  • Adrenal glands (if you eat them): one of the richest sources (~100+ mg per gland in some animals)
  • Raw or very lightly cooked meat: Vitamin C is heat-sensitive, so rare/medium-rare meat retains more
Many long-term carnivores eat liver, kidney, or other organs regularly, which easily covers the small amount needed.

2. Extremely low carbohydrate intake reduces vitamin C requirements
This is the big one most people miss:
  • Glucose and vitamin C compete for the same transport receptors (GLUT1 transporters).
  • When you eat zero carbs, blood glucose stays low → much less competition → your cells need far less vitamin C to function.
  • Historical examples: Arctic explorers (e.g., Vilhjalmur Stefansson) lived on meat/fat alone for years with no scurvy.
  • Clinical observation: Zero-carb/keto/carnivore communities report almost no cases of scurvy when fresh meat is consumed.
 
Chadk said:
I researched it a lot. You need vit c and fiber when you are on the standard American diet. So many people eat so much processed garbage it is hard on the system. But meat is highly bio-available. I have no issues with not having any fiber. And yes, it took a while to get my gut microbes transitioned.

I do take a few supplements. Magnesium is one. Helps me avoid cramping mainly. My electrolytes I add to my water cover mineral/sea salt + potassium.
Click to expand...
You and I came to very different conclusions. I'm glad it's working for you but do take long term affects into consideration.
 
Yard Sale said:
That just can't be good for the heart. Everything in moderation...
Click to expand...
Pardon my copy paste here, but covers it well:

The idea that saturated fat, red meat, cholesterol, and eggs are "hard on the heart" comes mostly from research and dietary guidelines from the 1950s–1990s (Ancel Keys’ Seven Countries Study, early observational data, the original USDA food pyramid, etc.). For decades this became dogma: “saturated fat → high LDL cholesterol → heart disease.” Eggs got demonized because one large egg has ~185 mg cholesterol and people were told to keep dietary cholesterol under 300 mg/day (later 200 mg).


Here’s why that narrative has largely fallen apart, especially for people on carnivore/very-low-carb high-fat diets:

1. Dietary cholesterol has almost no effect on blood cholesterol for most people​

  • About 75–80 % of the population are “hypo-responders”: eating more cholesterol raises blood levels only a tiny amount because the body down-regulates its own production.
  • The 2015–2020 and 2025 U.S. Dietary Guidelines completely dropped the 300 mg/day cholesterol limit because the evidence never supported it.
  • Multiple meta-analyses (e.g., 2013 AJCN, 2020 systematic review) show no association between egg intake (even 1–3 per day) and cardiovascular events in the general population.
2. LDL cholesterol is a lousy predictor by itself in low-carb metabolic environments
  • On a high-carb diet, high saturated fat → small, dense, oxidized LDL particles (pattern B), which are pro-atherogenic.
  • On a very-low-carb or carnivore diet, saturated fat tends to raise large, buoyant LDL (pattern A) and often dramatically raises HDL and lowers triglycerides → a much better lipid profile overall.
  • The triglyceride/HDL ratio and the size/oxidation state of LDL particles matter far more than total or LDL-C numbers. Many carnivore dieters end up with TG < 70 and HDL > 80 even with sky-high LDL.

3. Large recent studies and Mendelian randomization cast doubt on saturated fat itself causing heart disease​

  • PURE study (135,000+ people, 18 countries, 2017–2022): higher saturated fat intake was associated with lower total mortality and no increase in CVD.
  • 2020 Cochrane review of RCTs: cutting saturated fat does not reduce cardiovascular events or mortality.
  • Mendelian randomization studies (people genetically programmed to have high LDL lifelong) show that only certain subtypes of LDL (those rich in apoB and small/dense) drive atherosclerosis. Pure dietary saturated fat rarely creates that subtype in a low-insulin state.

4. Real-world carnivore/zero-carb data (anecdotal but growing)​

  • Thousands of long-term carnivores tracked by researchers like Shawn Baker, Ken Berry, Paul Saladino (early) and now academic groups (e.g., Harvard’s carnivore study being run by Dr. Belinda Lennerz and Dr. David Ludwig) show:
    • Average LDL goes way up (often 200–500+ mg/dL)
    • But HDL very high, triglycerides extremely low, fasting insulin low, HbA1c excellent, hs-CRP (inflammation) low or normal.
  • So far, no spike in actual events (heart attacks, stents, etc.) has been documented in these cohorts, even after 5–10 years. (This is still n=1 and citizen-science level, but the feared “all these people should be dropping dead” simply isn’t happening.)

5. The “Lean Mass Hyper-Responder” phenotype​

  • A subset of thin, insulin-sensitive people on very-low-carb diets (common in carnivore) experience massive LDL rises (sometimes >500 mg/dL). This was named LMHR by Dave Feldman and Nick Norwitz.
  • Preliminary data (2023–2025 case series and matched cohort studies) show these individuals have pristine coronary calcium scores and clear CT angiograms despite astronomical LDL. The hypothesis is that in the absence of metabolic syndrome, the extra LDL is just transporting the huge amount of dietary fat and isn’t depositing in arteries.

Bottom line​

The old teaching (“eggs and red meat clog your arteries”) was based on:
  • Observational studies that couldn’t separate saturated fat from sugar/refined carbs,
  • Outdated fear of dietary cholesterol,
  • And a simplistic “LDL = bad” model.

In metabolically healthy people eating zero or near-zero carbohydrate, the same foods produce a completely different metabolic and lipoprotein profile—one that current evidence suggests is not harmful and may even be protective.

That’s why many people eating ribeyes and eggs all day are walking around with CAC scores of zero and perfect blood pressure, while the feared heart attacks haven’t materialized at the rates the old model predicted. The science has moved; the 1977–2010 dietary guidelines just haven’t caught up yet.
 
Chadk said:
Any else here experienced with the "Carnivore Diet"?

I've been doing this for just over a year now. Life transforming to say the least.

For those who don't know, it is a high fat high protein diet. Nothing else (if you are strict). Animal based products only. Primarily beef, eggs, butter, bacon. Then chicken, fish, pork, dairy, etc. Water only (or electrolytes mixed in). Some start adding a bit to that (Keto or dirty-carnivore...) and allow things like coffee, spices, sauces (low/no sugar), etc. You also stick with beef tallow, ghee, bacon grease/lard for cooking. No seed oils or oils that are liquid at room temp for the most part (some continue using some olive oil and/or avocado oil).

A big part of it is the "elimination diet" approach. So many common foods today are inflammatory - causing things ranging from arthritis, heartburn, skin issues, joint pain, sleep issues, mental fog, lack of energy, etc. So a big focus, especially in the beginning, is eliminating anything not strictly beef, butter, eggs (some people have issues with eggs, some beef, etc. Not all react the same way - so some if it is trial and error).

Anyway, the point of my post is focused on back-country eating. What are some good 'carnivore friendly' foods for backpacking? My usual freeze dried meals (Peak, Mtn House, etc) are out. I can do beef jerky, pepperoni, etc. I could pack in steak, eggs, bacon - but weight and spoilage are concerns. As I plan for next spring-fall, what are some options I'm missing? Needs to have high fat calories for maximum energy.

Anyone ever make or buy pre-made pemmican? I think that is probably the answer. Maybe some pork rinds, jerky, and hard salami. Moon cheese?
Click to expand...
I used to pack jerky of different variety and some hard well aged cheese. Catching fish (when possible) really helps. Throw in a tube of extra virgin olive oil too.
 
Chadk said:
Pardon my copy paste here, but covers it well:

The idea that saturated fat, red meat, cholesterol, and eggs are "hard on the heart" comes mostly from research and dietary guidelines from the 1950s–1990s (Ancel Keys’ Seven Countries Study, early observational data, the original USDA food pyramid, etc.). For decades this became dogma: “saturated fat → high LDL cholesterol → heart disease.” Eggs got demonized because one large egg has ~185 mg cholesterol and people were told to keep dietary cholesterol under 300 mg/day (later 200 mg).


Here’s why that narrative has largely fallen apart, especially for people on carnivore/very-low-carb high-fat diets:

1. Dietary cholesterol has almost no effect on blood cholesterol for most people​

  • About 75–80 % of the population are “hypo-responders”: eating more cholesterol raises blood levels only a tiny amount because the body down-regulates its own production.
  • The 2015–2020 and 2025 U.S. Dietary Guidelines completely dropped the 300 mg/day cholesterol limit because the evidence never supported it.
  • Multiple meta-analyses (e.g., 2013 AJCN, 2020 systematic review) show no association between egg intake (even 1–3 per day) and cardiovascular events in the general population.
2. LDL cholesterol is a lousy predictor by itself in low-carb metabolic environments
  • On a high-carb diet, high saturated fat → small, dense, oxidized LDL particles (pattern B), which are pro-atherogenic.
  • On a very-low-carb or carnivore diet, saturated fat tends to raise large, buoyant LDL (pattern A) and often dramatically raises HDL and lowers triglycerides → a much better lipid profile overall.
  • The triglyceride/HDL ratio and the size/oxidation state of LDL particles matter far more than total or LDL-C numbers. Many carnivore dieters end up with TG < 70 and HDL > 80 even with sky-high LDL.

3. Large recent studies and Mendelian randomization cast doubt on saturated fat itself causing heart disease​

  • PURE study (135,000+ people, 18 countries, 2017–2022): higher saturated fat intake was associated with lower total mortality and no increase in CVD.
  • 2020 Cochrane review of RCTs: cutting saturated fat does not reduce cardiovascular events or mortality.
  • Mendelian randomization studies (people genetically programmed to have high LDL lifelong) show that only certain subtypes of LDL (those rich in apoB and small/dense) drive atherosclerosis. Pure dietary saturated fat rarely creates that subtype in a low-insulin state.

4. Real-world carnivore/zero-carb data (anecdotal but growing)​

  • Thousands of long-term carnivores tracked by researchers like Shawn Baker, Ken Berry, Paul Saladino (early) and now academic groups (e.g., Harvard’s carnivore study being run by Dr. Belinda Lennerz and Dr. David Ludwig) show:
    • Average LDL goes way up (often 200–500+ mg/dL)
    • But HDL very high, triglycerides extremely low, fasting insulin low, HbA1c excellent, hs-CRP (inflammation) low or normal.
  • So far, no spike in actual events (heart attacks, stents, etc.) has been documented in these cohorts, even after 5–10 years. (This is still n=1 and citizen-science level, but the feared “all these people should be dropping dead” simply isn’t happening.)

5. The “Lean Mass Hyper-Responder” phenotype​

  • A subset of thin, insulin-sensitive people on very-low-carb diets (common in carnivore) experience massive LDL rises (sometimes >500 mg/dL). This was named LMHR by Dave Feldman and Nick Norwitz.
  • Preliminary data (2023–2025 case series and matched cohort studies) show these individuals have pristine coronary calcium scores and clear CT angiograms despite astronomical LDL. The hypothesis is that in the absence of metabolic syndrome, the extra LDL is just transporting the huge amount of dietary fat and isn’t depositing in arteries.

Bottom line​

The old teaching (“eggs and red meat clog your arteries”) was based on:
  • Observational studies that couldn’t separate saturated fat from sugar/refined carbs,
  • Outdated fear of dietary cholesterol,
  • And a simplistic “LDL = bad” model.

In metabolically healthy people eating zero or near-zero carbohydrate, the same foods produce a completely different metabolic and lipoprotein profile—one that current evidence suggests is not harmful and may even be protective.

That’s why many people eating ribeyes and eggs all day are walking around with CAC scores of zero and perfect blood pressure, while the feared heart attacks haven’t materialized at the rates the old model predicted. The science has moved; the 1977–2010 dietary guidelines just haven’t caught up yet.
Click to expand...
You have definitely done your research. Well done.
 
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