CA Seals and Sealions eating all of WA Springers?

[JS]

Sea lions aren’t a good fit for hunting. Evidently they are often very heavily contaminated with a variety of heavy metals and other yuckiness that is bad enough that WDFW employees have to wear PPE to handle the meat and organs. Besides that, there are some added dangers when dealing with firearm safety on and around federally navigable waters.

Understood, but they are now managing a population of large mammals and regardless of who kills them or how. It seems rational that they consider/set management objectives as they would other adjacent species. That’s the only way to make a reasonable impact. They admit themselves that sea lions are “at or near carrying capacity”.

From the WDFW website:

Population: The U.S. population of California sea lions is currently estimated at up to 300,000 animals, all on the Pacific coast. From an estimated population of about 10,000 animals in the 1950s, U.S. California sea lion numbers have grown rapidly since the 1970s and the species is now at “carrying capacity”—near the highest level the environment can sustain—according to wildlife biologists. A population survey conducted in 2006 by the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW) documented 1,200 California sea lions and 1,000 Steller sea lions near the mouth of the Columbia River alone.

Diet: California sea lions feed on a variety of fish and shellfish, including salmon, steelhead,

 

[Matt Paluch]

Understood, but they are now managing a population of large mammals and regardless of who kills them or how. It seems rational that they consider/set management objectives as they would other adjacent species. That’s the only way to make a reasonable impact. They admit themselves that sea lions are “at or near carrying capacity”.

From the WDFW website:

Population: The U.S. population of California sea lions is currently estimated at up to 300,000 animals, all on the Pacific coast. From an estimated population of about 10,000 animals in the 1950s, U.S. California sea lion numbers have grown rapidly since the 1970s and the species is now at “carrying capacity”—near the highest level the environment can sustain—according to wildlife biologists. A population survey conducted in 2006 by the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW) documented 1,200 California sea lions and 1,000 Steller sea lions near the mouth of the Columbia River alone.

Diet: California sea lions feed on a variety of fish and shellfish, including salmon, steelhead,

What sort of management are you suggesting?

 

[JS]

What sort of management are you suggesting?

I’m suggesting a science based approach for habitat holding capacity thresholds based on data. If, for example, the native human populations had historically measurable impact on pinniped populations, then management should look at the historical impact of harvest on each population and make assessments for each species based on that knowledge.

 

[Matt Paluch]

I’m suggesting a science based approach for habitat holding capacity thresholds based on data. If, for example, the native human populations had historically measurable impact on pinniped populations, then management should look at the historical impact of harvest on each population and make assessments for each species based on that knowledge.

Do you know whether or not that is already being done?

 

[FinLuver]

Sea lions aren’t a good fit for hunting. Evidently they are often very heavily contaminated with a variety of heavy metals and other yuckiness that is bad enough that WDFW employees have to wear PPE to handle the meat and organs. Besides that, there are some added dangers when dealing with firearm safety on and around federally navigable waters.

They would make good lamp oil (filtering out the impurities)…this could be good for the green initiative the politicians are heading us towards.

Besides…less seal farts too.

Win-win

 

[JS]

Do you know whether or not that is already being done?

I do not, nor am I a bio. It does seem as though the number taken vs abundant population is on the low side.

Do you have any data to support that they are as toxic as you say? I can’t find anything to support that claim. I think that your opinion that they are not a good fit for a hunting harvest model is subjective.

 

[JS]

I did however find this from Alaskan DFW written in 1994…..

 

[Matt Paluch]

I do not, nor am I a bio. It does seem as though the number taken vs abundant population is on the low side.

Do you have any data to support that they are as toxic as you say? I can’t find anything to support that claim. I think that your opinion that they are not a good fit for a hunting harvest model is subjective.

I got it from this: https://www.dfw.state.or.us/fish/Se...Section 120(f) Sea Lion Management Report.pdf

Here’s a screenshot:

 

[JS]

No argument there, but I am curious if that means that the meat is completely inedible or toxic. Similar warnings are given for sharks, pelagic fish, whales (think farrow island pilot whale). People still eat those species with regularity.

 

[Matt Paluch]

No argument there, but I am curious if that means that the meat is completely inedible or toxic. Similar warnings are given for sharks, pelagic fish, whales (think farrow island pilot whale). People still eat those species with regularity.

I don’t know exactly how toxic it is, but I haven’t heard of anyone recommending PPE for handling any fish.

 

[JS]

I don’t know exactly how toxic it is, but I haven’t heard of anyone recommending PPE for handling any fish.

PPE is a relative term. Gloves are PPE, and I wouldn’t field dress a bear without nitrile gloves.

 

[adamcu280]

I’m sure people can find other sources that will support whatever they want to believe but here’s some old news on toxins in CASLs.

Organochloride pesticides in California sea lions revisited - BMC Ecology

Background Dichlorodiphenyltrichloroethane (DDT) and polychlorinated biphenyls (PCBs) are ubiquitous environmental contaminants that have been banned in most countries, but considerable amounts continue to cycle the ecosphere. Top trophic level predators, like sea birds and marine mammals...

bmcecol.biomedcentral.com

 

[Salmo_g]

There are no safety issues with hunters using guns. None...

Rob, let's not go off the deep end here. Guns are weapons, and like many tools are dangerous unless used carefully and responsibly. If there were no safety issues, we wouldn't need things like hunter safety education, for starters.

 

[Salmo_g]

Sorry Matt's post was extremely insulting.

I missed the insult in Matt's post. He's right about firearm safety on the water, where the damn sea lions live. You should be aware that shooting an average high powered rifle at a flat angle, like a sea lion head sticking out of the water, results in a ricochet bullet traveling a long ways if the shooter misses the target. So something on or near the water up to a mile away could be the inadvertent target. And that's the safety issue I was thinking of. Consequently, short range shotgun loads are a safer alternative.

 

[Matt Paluch]

I was told directly by WDFW staff that sport hunting is not going to happen for sea lions. I’m not interested in going down the rabbit hole of why hunting sea lions with firearms poses a safety concern. It’s still a violation of federal law, so we don’t need to discuss hypotheticals.

 

[JS]

Sorry Matt's post was extremely insulting.

It’s not insulting, but it does lack an understanding that hunters by and large are safe in their outdoor endeavors. Think of the countless hours in duck blinds, in the deer woods, etc with very few accidents. I realize that hunting is inherently dangerous, however.

Do you really think that every person who has ever hunted would want to harvest a sea lion? I think that’s an incredibly naive attitude.

Additionally, regulations are in place for good reason, and this could mitigate risk.

I think we get to a point where some people are really uncomfortable with these animals being harvested. The sentiment toward hunting in this state is confused, that’s the kindest way I can state it.

 

[JS]

I was told directly by WDFW staff that sport hunting is not going to happen for sea lions. I’m not interested in going down the rabbit hole of why hunting sea lions with firearms poses a safety concern. It’s still a violation of federal law, so we don’t need to discuss hypotheticals.

Lol, ok

 

[charles sullivan]

I am a hunter. I hunt. It has become pretty much my favorite thing.

I understand the safety difference between shooting a bullet at a sea lion in the water and shooting at ducks with shot or shooting at a deer or elk on land with a bullet. It is not that hard. It is a different scenario for sure.

Just because duck and deer hunting is safe does not mean that sea lion hunting would be as safe. Honestly, given the location of the sea lions and the weapon that I assume would be used, I think it would be best left up to professionals or an agency that could secure the area around where the removal is taking place. That just makes good sense to me.

 

[Rob Allen]

I am a hunter. I hunt. It has become pretty much my favorite thing.

I understand the safety difference between shooting a bullet at a sea lion in the water and shooting at ducks with shot or shooting at a deer or elk on land with a bullet. It is not that hard. It is a different scenario for sure.

Just because duck and deer hunting is safe does not mean that sea lion hunting would be as safe. Honestly, given the location of the sea lions and the weapon that I assume would be used, I think it would be best left up to professionals or an agency that could secure the area around where the removal is taking place. That just makes good sense to me.

I just think it's fallacy to think that and "professional " knows more about firearms safety than hunters do..
You make a good point about being able to secure the area..
I think hunting sea lions would be extremely difficult for all the reasons mentioned and few shots would ever be taken because of those safety concerns. A more analogous situation would be Alligator hunting. Flat trajectory, small target.

 

[JS]

I am a hunter. I hunt. It has become pretty much my favorite thing.

I understand the safety difference between shooting a bullet at a sea lion in the water and shooting at ducks with shot or shooting at a deer or elk on land with a bullet. It is not that hard. It is a different scenario for sure.

Just because duck and deer hunting is safe does not mean that sea lion hunting would be as safe. Honestly, given the location of the sea lions and the weapon that I assume would be used, I think it would be best left up to professionals or an agency that could secure the area around where the removal is taking place. That just makes good sense to me.

And yet they have been doing it in AK for centuries. Traditionally for millennia. I’ll stop posting, you can all get back to hugging your seals.

That’s a pretty patronizing statement there, Charles. Have you hunted your entire life? Is the culture of deeply embedded in your families everyday life. I have, and it makes a difference.

I give up though, you guys have all the answers.