Affordable places you would actually want to live

[Jacob Watrous]

Imagine you were forced into early retirement, you have two young kids, and you don’t quite have enough money to retire (comfortably) in the Seattle area. Where would you move to?

Consider schools, safety, things to do with your time (fishing), etc.

Portugal. €800/month in passive income gets you a permanent resident permit.

But since I’ve got to work for 10 more years (until the youngest is in college), The Netherlands—specifically Amersfoort for me. College will be about €4500 per year for my kids, including room and board included, when the time comes, public schools are great, private schools are cheap (€4000/year) and the fishing is quite good.

 

[RCF]

Us older folks take quality medical availability seriously. As we should. But younger folks do not think about as much. It is like insurance, you do not need it until you do. Car accident, kidney stones, appendicitis, fall off a ladder, the list goes on .

With today's environment, the closing of numerous facilities should be taken into account.

It is mentioned numerous times above ---> as it should be....

 

[Rob Allen]

I don’t actually know. I’ve only lived in Adelaide (Australia), Tampa and Seattle. I’m just curious what the obvious options are.

This is mostly theoretical, but it is a common discussion topic at work, because AI is an existential threat to our profession.

The loss of profession doesn't dictate early retirement. I have a friend who after being in tech since the 1970s found himself needing work. He also found himself needing a deck on his house. After many calls to contractors who all told him they were 6 months to a year out he simply bought the tools and did it himself. For the next 10 years he just did handyman work. His starting rate was 35.00 an hour. When he finally retired he was charging 75.00 an hour and had more work than he could handle. I don't know about other people but to me 75 dollars an hour is an insanely high wage. Now not suggesting that you should become a handyman but I bet there is something you know how to do that other people could find value in where you live now.

 

[Evan B]

The loss of profession doesn't dictate early retirement. I have a friend who after being in tech since the 1970s found himself needing work. He also found himself needing a deck on his house. After many calls to contractors who all told him they were 6 months to a year out he simply bought the tools and did it himself. For the next 10 years he just did handyman work. His starting rate was 35.00 an hour. When he finally retired he was charging 75.00 an hour and had more work than he could handle. I don't know about other people but to me 75 dollars an hour is an insanely high wage. Now not suggesting that you should become a handyman but I bet there is something you know how to do that other people could find value in where you live now.

I would totally be a handyman if I needed a fall back plan. I'd definitely need to work on a few new skills but there's a lot of appeal in just general varying projects. Or maybe I'd go around building pizza ovens for people.

I already work two jobs, but my second job as a weightlifting / strength and conditioning coach would never really pay enough to be more than a side gig.

Edit: actually I have three jobs! but the forum biz doesn't exactly pay well. Or pay at all for that matter

 

[Tom Butler]

Or you are a smart guy with an engineering degree. Small town teacher. Pretty good gig for a family man. After I lost my Land Surveyor job during the housing crisis a spot opened teaching engineering and surveying at the CC. Now I teach math. The world could use more good math teachers. My wife's been with the public schools for 28 years doing special needs. You won’t get rich, but everything else is great.

 

[CanoeGuy]

I prefer to live in America where I feel much more secure. Honestly, I think if I were in your position, I would look at property in the Ozark Mountains. Land is ridiculously cheap, fishing is great, the people are warm and kind, kids are "free range" and schools teach the three r's. After living in Seattle... this will be like breathing in a lung full of fresh air....American fresh air.

This is an interesting idea to me. Any specific town?

 

[Salmo_g]

Climate and weather are over-riding consideration factors for me. Which is why I have remained in western WA all my life. I like the desert SW but only for a few weeks in the spring, and maybe fall - I haven't tried that. Otherwise way too f'n hot in the summer. Then there's Texas to Florida up to Maine and the entire mid-west: way to f'n humid along with too hot in much of that area for way too many months of the year. So then, the Rocky mtn states, MT, WY, CO: nice summers, but way to f'n cold in the winter. About all that's left are the Dakotas, which are also way to f'n cold in the winter, not to mention that just being in the Dakotas is punishment enough in itself.

So, the PNW sorta' wins by default. Not too hot, not too cold, not too humid. Just some rain and gray skies, but a week-long winter break to somewhere sunny kinda' cures that.

 

[Guy Gregory]

Walla Walla seems to check most boxes. Baker City OR too.

 

[SurfnFish]

The OP has kids, which creates a totally different dynamic than empty nesters looking for their 'private Idaho'.
Parent priorities are quality schools, a supportive and safe community, availability of good primary care doctors, affordability, and will the kids be raised in an area that offers reasonable cost college opportunities and post-graduation work employment, or will the kids have to relocate to other areas for college and work.
We raised our kids in an idyllic coastal town I'd lived in since 20, with easy access to SF and the peninsula that checked all the boxes, until over the decades it morphed into a high appeal destination for tech money, which clogged the roads and drove the average house prices to 1.5M. So once the kids had completed college and were off and running, we did the same, heading north and glad we did.
As to moving out of the country, likely more appealing to those who have no kids, as those that do would miss out on time with family/grand-kids as the years roll by.
Having worked/traveled in approx 20 countries and much of the US, a common encountered refrain was 'too crowded, too expensive, was so much better 20 years ago.' 8 billion people and growing will do that to a rapidly shrinking rock.
So best we can do is find a place that checks the most boxes for our current needs in life, and helps us enjoy the space between our ears. And never lose sight of how blessed we are to have such choices in our life, most of the world doesn't.

 

[Irafly]

Bellingham has plenty of fishing opportunities, if you like lakes. Most of the salmon fishing now is limited, but good when open. The Nooksak is not that far away if you need river access, but for that matter, neither is the Vedder.

 

[Evan B]

Bellingham has plenty of fishing opportunities, if you like lakes. Most of the salmon fishing now is limited, but good when open. The Nooksak is not that far away if you need river access, but for that matter, neither is the Vedder.

I think a lot of people really overestimate how good the fishing is immediately across the BC border.

 

[Irafly]

Bellingham would be tough if you wanted to fish a lot. At least it'd be tough for me.

This is part of the reason I mentioned the fishing opportunities up there. Although in your defense, you did say it would be tough for you.

 

[Pink Nighty]

Bellingham has plenty of fishing opportunities, if you like lakes. Most of the salmon fishing now is limited, but good when open. The Nooksak is not that far away if you need river access, but for that matter, neither is the Vedder.

The bass fishing in whatcom county is terrible, no reason to look to the lakes whatsoever. Move along, no reason to launch at wiser or Terrell or fazon or whatcom or samish or cain. Just fishless wet spots on the ground.

 

[Irafly]

The bass fishing in whatcom county is terrible, no reason to look to the lakes whatsoever. Move along, no reason to launch at wiser or Terrell or fazon or whatcom or samish or cain. Just fishless wet spots on the ground.

Especially Terrell, no possible way that the state record largemouth could be in that lake. Certainly no smallies in Whatcom.

 

[Evan B]

Yeah but are there carp?

 

[509]

I started work as a forester in 1970 and knew fairly quickly that I would be living and moving throughout the western US for the rest of my life. I started keeping a list of towns and places that I wanted to live.

I always thought the towns would remain the same. They don't.

Towns like Boise that stayed on my list for decades are no longer liveable. I never thought I would see the day that the Boise metro area would be larger in population than the Spokane metro area.

Wenatchee was a incredible small town in the 80's. It became an awful small city after 2010. Complete with gridlock traffic, crime and murders, homeless people, urban traffic noise all day long, chain stores sucking the lifeblood out of the business community, and of course, the weekend tourist traffic!!!

That is one thing you want to do is move FARTHER away from metro area than a weekend recreational drive. Otherwise, your meeting thousands of "friends" you never knew every time you go outdoors.

Since I did community economic analysis for the Forest Service for years, I have kept track of my towns. It is amazing the growth in small towns that at one time only Forest Service and BLM folks knew existed.

And the growth in the cost of housing. I talked to several people that wanted to move from Portland to Wenatchee and could not afford the asking price for houses here. And that is happening throughout the west. There is a city in Arizona, that is so off the beaten track that even Arizonians don't know it exists. Housing prices have quadrupled there in the last four years. This is a city of 50,000!!!

BTW, 50,000 population is the magic number. That is when all the corporate stores move in and totally transform a community. The worst of the bunch is Costco. You NEVER want to move to a community with a Costco, it is on a downhill slide.

A friend of mine owned a small high tech business over on the coast. He got offers he couldn't refuse and had the ability to live anywhere he wanted in the world.

He moved to Pomeroy. There might be a lesson there.

 

[Irafly]

Yeah but are there carp?

Maybe?

 

[jaredoconnor]

The loss of profession doesn't dictate early retirement.

What we are facing is unprecedented. There’s however many tens or hundreds of thousands in my position, in WA. If the profession winds down, there’s going to be a lot of people trying to pivot into something else, all at the same time. Many other professions will be impacted too.

I have many years of work left in me, but I can’t assume there will be any work that I can or want to do. The worst case is early retirement and we have enough to do that, just not in the Seattle area. I’m a “hope for the best but assume the worst” kind of guy.

 

[Evan B]

Where I'm at in east Multnomah county, cost of living is roughly 25% less expensive than King County. So I think anywhere in the PNW outside of King County will be much more doable in that regard.

 

[Canuck from Kansas]

Weather is a huge consideration, it is how we ended up in Bend, but we had just become empty nesters. We bought at the bottom of the market during housing crisis; now, with kids, to be in decent part of Bend with the best schools, I would say there is an affordability issue. We have since left Bend for various reason, but mostly to be near family (2 boys in NYC). We have settled in the Poconos of Pennsylvania (2.5 to 3 hours from NYC and the boys). Weather is decent, we like the 4 seasons, but winter is not too harsh. Decent education and health services near us, small town/rural feel.

If you are at all thinking of the East, Pennsylvania is maybe one of the better states to consider, lest you really like winter, which given the places you've lived, may never have experienced. If you love snow and good cold, Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont are great states. The only place in New York state outside the city, which is unafforadable, that is worth living in is Ithaca, but that borders on unaffordable and has a pretty serious winter. Everywhere else we looked is depressed and broken down and NY taxes are way up there.

Virginia, out in the Shenandoah valley is also nice. I'm not sure how anyone lives in the "south".

BC has been mentioned, but it is not cheap, Vancouver is as bad or worse than Seattle. The Sunshine cost is beautiful (lived up there for 3 years) but very expensive. The interior is very nice, Kamloops is affordable, but then there is that winter thing to consider. Kelowna area is pretty expensive (and has winter, as does all of the interior).

Someone mentioned the Ozarks, which I thought was interesting. You couldn't pay me enough to live there. I lived outside of Kansas City for quite some time, and several times drove through various parts in search of fishing - scary place to me, from what I saw and know, not terribly tolerant, has had a history of drug issues, many of the towns are pretty depressed (or were), outside of Columbia, which is not really the Ozarks, not sure education is a priority. Now I may be all wrong on this, I would not mind to be corrected.

Anyways, good luck with your "thought experiment".

Cheers