a non-political climate change thread

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What I rarely see in these discussions is a heat map (appropriate for climate discussions I guess). How do we list, rank, and prioritize so as to triage the problems and ensure we are fighting the right battles at the right times with the right amount or resources. What I typically see is the "well, we gotta do SOMETHING...ANYTHING..." which is garbage. And this is how politics gets worked in. "Give us a bunch of money to spend and trust us that it will contribute to solving the problem". What you actually get is a "war on climate change" in which a Climate Industrial Complex is born. We all know how well the gov't wars work: war on drugs, war on poverty, war on homelessness, war on terrorism, etc etc. Turns into a money grab worth billions or trillions while the actual problems see very little results.

In this case, we all know China, India, Russia and others pollute WAY more than the US and they don't appear to be taking any serious steps to help. 90% of the pollution in the ocean comes from India, China, and a few African rivers. Green house gases in China and air pollution are out of control and not slowing down. All these people worried about population control who aren't' having kids - will soon be replaced by millions of people who don't give a crap about the environment.

Back to the article - the scare tactics are getting tiresome. Many of us have heard them our whole lives and heard of the stories well before. Ozone holes, global cooling, coming ice age, catastrophe by 1999, 2012, 2020, 2040, 2050, etc etc. Inconvenient truths. Propaganda movies galore, like 2012 and The Day After Tomorrow. The dates come and go and nothing really seems to have changed, but the Climate Industrial Complex keeps chugging along. They sound no different than some charlatan on TV or the street corner predicting the end of the world on March 14, 2023.

I'm not denying the idea that there is a global climate that can and does change over time. I'm just not convinced those in power really know or care how to solve and the science behind it is happy to keep the funding coming and wildly speculating on dates and 'what ifs' as long it fuels the machine.
 
Rob Allen said:
He I'd not far off. The problem with it is that morality is a basic need as important as food and air.. our the current conditions in America prove that beyond any shadow of any doubt.
OUR lack of it causes the breakdown of all the others..
I used all caps for "our" to emphasize the self inclusive pronoun so that everyone would know I am not singling out any person or group in any way shape or form. Well I guess a am singling out Americans :)
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Whose morals, based on what philosphy, and who defines this ?
Is your insinuation here that Americans are less moral than other nationalities ?

Philosophically, exactly what are you talking about here ?

Utilitarianism, or something more akin to Kant's 'categorical imperitive' test... ?

Feel free to expound...

:)
 
I do agree with the OP on this subject. But as posts go through the growing change they tend to get all kinds of bull shit . I for one don't worry about what I can't change or do anything about. I have to go with the flow as others do. By myself I couldn't do anything about it. But in a crowd of people that all think alike I might be able to do the right thing.

I got nothing else.
 
Sheesh ---> 4 pages and about 1,000 views and only a handful of posts actually about climate change that can help those of us that want to learn more. The rest is just the normal BS --->philosophy, moral high ground, and politics.
 
Yard Sale said:
You don't have to be scared, but it's probably a good idea to be prepared. Here in the Gorge we have the threat of a very large earthquake in the subduction zone. Like the CA floods, its a matter of when not if. Could be tomorrow, could be a couple hundred years. The point is to prepare before it happens. We would likely be cut-off from getting out of the gorge for several days so a back up plan for food and water is a simple solution. I even bought some jungle cock eyes so I could feed my family on steelhead if need be. :ROFLMAO:

I didn't read this one but WaPo had a similar article today about flooding in Ca. Their focus was mostly that you can't stop it, but having a good forecast will be huge. At least they have plenty or reservoir capacity waiting...
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Be glad you’re in the Gorge. If you’re on the coast when it happens you will be more than f*#~ed.
 
G_Smolt said:
While still a net negative for anadromous fish across nearly all of their range, there are potential gains in habitat and thermal refugia along the gulf of AK in the coming (hotter) years. These will be important as smaller and primarily snowmelt-driven streams endure massive hydrologic change.

Glacier retreat creating new Pacific salmon habitat in western North America
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The issue will be what happens to the salmon when they leave the stream and encounter warming oceans and highly dispersed bait schools, creating unfavorable survivability.
 
SurfnFish said:
The issue will be what happens to the salmon when they leave the stream and encounter warming oceans and highly dispersed bait schools, creating unfavorable survivability.
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We're already seeing the change there, but all the layers and interrelationships of that particular onion will take quite a while to peel.
 

Biggest Contributors To Global Warming In The World By Country​

RankCountryGlobal Total (%)
1China27.51
2United States14.75
3India6.43
4Russia4.86
5Japan2.99
6Brazil2.25
7Germany1.98
8Indonesia1.64
9Canada1.63
10Mexico1.62
Interesting this, in a time when there are those who clammer for more US Fossil Fuel extraction so we can keep up with, Guess Who, the worse of the worse. If we did a little math with the chart and reduced percents of contributions down to that, let's say of Mexico's, that would be a reduction in of slightly over 50% of the World's contributions to Global Warming. I dare say that would produce a much better world to live in than one we have created for our children to live in!

Also interesting to hear those who scream, "Why should we, when they" when you look at this chart??? Except for China, "they" are the ones looking at the US as a bunch of populist pigs spewing out more than double their emissions.

Here is fun fact, put the Russian land mass and population along with the population mass of India. Add these two countries' contributions together and you still get less than the US!

Let's assume for the sake of mathematics that when this chart says contributors we are talking mostly about carbon emissions. If we reduce the US figure by 40% that would equal about 8.85 and we would still be the second worse contributor in the world. Oh yes, it's a start in the right direction but not near enough!

Let's say someone has metastatic cancer and has X to live. You tell the patient you have a new medication that will reduce their cancer by 40% over the next 8 years. Would that patient happily say, it's a start in the right direction!
 
Flymph said:

Biggest Contributors To Global Warming In The World By Country​

RankCountryGlobal Total (%)
1China27.51
2United States14.75
3India6.43
4Russia4.86
5Japan2.99
6Brazil2.25
7Germany1.98
8Indonesia1.64
9Canada1.63
10Mexico1.62
Interesting this, in a time when there are those who clammer for more US Fossil Fuel extraction so we can keep up with, Guess Who, the worse of the worse. If we did a little math with the chart and reduced percents of contributions down to that, let's say of Mexico's, that would be a reduction in of slightly over 50% of the World's contributions to Global Warming. I dare say that would produce a much better world to live in than one we have created for our children to live in!

Also interesting to hear those who scream, "Why should we, when they" when you look at this chart??? Except for China, "they" are the ones looking at the US as a bunch of populist pigs spewing out more than double their emissions.
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Interesting chart....and not at all surprising. I'm curious what is the source for it is? I'd be curious to see those numbers broken down further (if such a thing exists--I haven't done my own googling yet)

I'll never understand the whataboutisms as a reason for not doing shit. Thankfully, not everyone thinks that way. That's not to say anyone is perfect (I sure as hell am not), but if there's any little thing I can do to do my part, I'm going to at a minimum make an effort to do it.
 
This is what I know first hand.
I moved to Okanagan Co. WA in 1981
I was living above the valley on Chiliwist Ck Rd at about 2000 ft above sea level.
The first winter the fence posts were covered with snow and stayed that way until March.
The snow got cement hard and you could walk on it until March.
There were many small swamps and lakes, some of the little lakes even had fish planted in them.
Well, the next winter the fence posts were still showing a little.
The snow still got rock hard but started melting off sooner in March.
This trend continued until I moved away from Okanogan Co. in 1998.
The little swamps dried up as well as the little lakes.
My friend and neighbor that was still living on Chiliwist Ck until they got burned out by a wild fire in 2016 or was it 2017.
For three years before they got burned out they did not have to plow the drive way more than two or three times in the winter.
If ya ask me if the climate is changing, I'm gonna have to yes it is.
 
dirty dog said:
This is what I know first hand.
I moved to Okanagan Co. WA in 1981
I was living above the valley on Chiliwist Ck Rd at about 2000 ft above sea level.
The first winter the fence posts were covered with snow and stayed that way until March.
The snow got cement hard and you could walk on it until March.
There were many small swamps and lakes, some of the little lakes even had fish planted in them.
Well, the next winter the fence posts were still showing a little.
The snow still got rock hard but started melting off sooner in March.
This trend continued until I moved away from Okanogan Co. in 1998.
The little swamps dried up as well as the little lakes.
My friend and neighbor that was still living on Chiliwist Ck until they got burned out by a wild fire in 2016 or was it 2017.
For three years before they got burned out they did not have to plow the drive way more than two or three times in the winter.
If ya ask me if the climate is changing, I'm gonna have to yes it is.
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Opps
 
My personal climate change index is how the annual starting and ending date of my lawn mowing. Have lived in the same house for 41 years. The first few years I lived in the house I would typically mow the lawn for the first time in mid to late March and mow it for the last time in mid to late October. 10 to 15 years ago the mowing began in mid-February and ended about mid-November. In recent years I have mowed the grass as early as late January and as late as early December. Having to spend nearly 3 months a year mowing grass is not how I would like to spend my time!

Curt
 
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I have been in the horticulture game for over 40 years, and I can now reliably grow a large number of plants that we had zero chance of growing when I started. Discussed this many times with friends of similar experience in the business and they agreed.

Don't know if this means something or not, but I do know I have a much broader plant palette to choose from than I did 30 years ago.
:)
 
Smalma said:
My personal climate change index is how the annual starting and ending date of my lawn mowing. Have lived in the same house for 41 years. The first few years I lived in the house I would typically mow the lawn for the first time in mid to late March and mow it for the last time in mid to late October. 10 to 15 years ago the mowing began in mid-February and ended about mid-November. In recent years I have mowed the grass as early as late January and as late as early December. Having to spend nearly 3 months a year mowing grass is now how I would like to spend my time!

Curt
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I refuse to mow in November, December, January, and February on general principal.
 
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