A glimmer of reason in the automotive world

In the nineties our company vehicles were mini vans. The best by far was the Dodge Caravan. It could remove both rear seats, and I was able to occasionally haul a nearly a ton back there. It got me anywhere I needed in the snow belt area of Ohio/Pa and especially winter steelhead fishing. Got into and out of places that I thought only 4WD should go, but it made it. An AWD van sounds like a good choice especially with the improved mileage. The Caravans got around 18 mpg back then, Sienna's 36 mpg is pretty awesome. The Caravans cost around $15K then so $40K for a Sienna seems like a good deal.
 
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iveofione said:
In an effort to close the gap between the functionality of the minivan and the less commodious SUV something was developed called 'the third row seat' meaning that you could now put people where the luggage was supposed to be. Even small vehicles went that route with small children being assigned to the very rear of the vehicle where their little bodies were to absorb the impact of a rear end collision. I always hated those things for the very danger they presented to the rear occupants who were basically trapped inside with no door and for the loss of storage area that they incurred. I have heard all of the arguments about how the rear seats can be folded into the floor to create more room but the bottom line is the weight is still there and it is occupying an area that can better be used for storage and cargo. And the 3rd row goes even further flying in the face of reason when you consider that the average size of the American family has shrunk to about 3.1 from 3.7 several years ago. Clearly the trend of ever more seats is in conflict with the direction the populace is headed.

I recently read that a major manufacturer is dropping the dreaded 3rd row seat in one of it's popular mid sized models for 2025. That is a step in the right direction and hopefully an indicator of things to come. If you need a bigger rig with more seats buy it, plenty are available but stop trying to put 10 pounds is a 5 pound sack. All of the safety shit in the world that runs the price of new vehicles up so high won't save your child if he is sitting with his head almost against the back glass and some oaf with one too many beers can't stop in time.
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We had a highlander hybrid with third row. Thing was a tank, shlepped a bunch of kids to and from countless sleepovers, sportball, and roadtrips. Got the family and G parents in one vehicle to tons of destinations. When it came time to sell it and downsize, resale was easy and $olid. Never regretted it, worked well for family of four. The majority of time those extra seats were stowed. Plus the only accident that tank had, the other dude's ride took the energy load...I will say though, cos of the batteries, not so much the third row, that heavy thing chewed through tires.

We recently rented a hybrid minivan, 20000 miles on A Chrysler Pacifica, the tires were super worn...also the paper ish underclad was just cheap as....
 
VAGABOND said:
I’d be very careful mentioning things like that in public at our ages. The Big Jinx could be hovering close by and drop what’s called a Life Turd close by but we still need to, like Steve Miller sang…Keep on keeping on.
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Believe me I was knocking on wood as I typed it . :) Karma was hovering . :rolleyes:
 
Chevy Astro with AWD in the snow was pretty damn impressive. Sure, not the sexiest vehicle on the road, but seeing a few in Bellingham with a 2” puck lift with K02’s, looks like a decent little adventure rig.
 
Brute said:
I have one on order…decided I need to think about giving up the rooftop tent and start to sleep inside the vehicle…
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I had the D130 Outbound for about a year but in the end it didn't get along with my use case as well as I'd hoped so I went back to a truck and a EV sport sedan daily driver. I spend a fair amount of time with my small rafts in the back of the truck running around trying to fish where there other people aren't. A lot more than I did camping or doing overloading type stuff. Ideally, I'll add a 4WD/AWD camper van to the mix but until I retire in a few years, I don't feel like I have the time to use it enough for it to be a rational investment.

Outbound - nice driving and cavernous back area, the biggest Defender with no third row and a flat cargo areIMG_0331.jpeg
 
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Old406Kid said:
Is this for a Hybrid? You had my attention but the used Siennas that I researched all said 19/27 with an average of 22 mpg.
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Dean - I can't speak for Lakeflyer's impressive fuel economy. Our daughter bought a gently used (gas) 2019 Sienna (front wheel drive) when she moved to the South Bay; she used it mostly for running the kids to and from school (buses seem to be non-existent in this Green part of Los Angeles), going shopping and running errands. I don't think the car ever got more than 14 mpg and sometimes less. Naomi thought it was a tank; she now drives a Honda CR-V hybrid that loves stop and go driving. (Unfortunately for Jiji/Baba, no third row seats so with the kids in car seats..........)
 
Driftless Dan said:
I became a minivan fan while living overseas. Going over the bumpy Chinese roads that led to the factories in which I worked, the longer wheelbase really helped smooth things out. I came back home and bought a 2004 Honda Odyssey, which I liked so much, I bought another 2004 Honda Odyssey I found recently with absurdly low mileage. Now I own TWO Silver 2004 Honda Odyssey EX-L's. My daughter drives one and has adorned it so it's not difficult to tell them apart. She calls it her Hot Rodyssey.

I have been seriously thinking about using a late model Sienna or Odyssey as a platform for a small camper van set up - something I could disassemble so the van could also be used for its original purpose.
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multiple times I'd pulled all the back seats out of our Sienna (heavy bastards), stack two futons in the back on top of each other for height, a cooler, etc, and take off on surf runs down the coast...averaged 24mpg on the highway.
DerekWhipple said:
Have you seen the new Outback? Doesn't have a third row, but it's getting bigger and blockier. Subaru is creeping in that direction, to many folks dismay.
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Toyota and Subaru share designers as well as build some models in the same plant, which might explain the Lexus RX350 body angles in the new Outback.
 
Old406Kid said:
Is this for a Hybrid? You had my attention but the used Siennas that I researched all said 19/27 with an average of 22 mpg.
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Since the new body style Sienna came out a few years ago, it is only offered as a hybrid.
If I recall correctly, that started with the 2021 year models.
SF
 
I have zero complaints with my 2010 AWD Sienna. I'm contemplating the Journeys lift but I haven't needed it in all of my snow driving. It would be great mod for lighter off-roading since the stock angles aren't great. I average 21mpg since I bought it, including driving half the year with a roof box.

Pretty sure I've sung the virtues of the rig before but it's great for nicer weather weekend or longer camping/surfing/fishing trips and can sleep two plus a dog. It's also super stealthy for urban camping since it IS a minivan. If the weather's bad it gets cramped and cooking inside would be a challenge.

For a one-car person it's pretty much perfect.
 
SurfnFish said:
multiple times I'd pulled all the back seats out of our Sienna (heavy bastards), stack two futons in the back on top of each other for height, a cooler, etc, and take off on surf runs down the coast...averaged 24mpg on the highway.

Toyota and Subaru share designers as well as build some models in the same plant, which might explain the Lexus RX350 body angles in the new Outback.
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Need to throw a Subaru AWD in a Toyota platform, ditch the boxer engine.
 
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Scottybs said:
Chevy Astro with AWD in the snow was pretty damn impressive. Sure, not the sexiest vehicle on the road, but seeing a few in Bellingham with a 2” puck lift with K02’s, looks like a decent little adventure rig.
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I always thought the Astros had nice lines. It would be cool to swap an LS motor into one and have a real street sleeper.
 
Stonedfish said:
I've considered a Sienna as my next fishing rig once my current one dies. I wish they offered a bare bones version with only two seats and a totally flat floor, but that isn't going to ever happen. I've posted this before.
SF

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My previous rig was a 2017 Sienna AWD, while not as cool as my present 4runner that thing was the most useful rig ever. With back seats folded down flat, 2 middle captain chairs taken out, it could haul pretty much anything, 4x8 plywood sheets were a breeze. Even with the middle seats in we used to stuff 2 adult bikes and 2 mini bikes in the back.

You can remove those rear seats Brian and sell them :)
 
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Chevrolet made a seriously bad decision when they abandoned the Express AWD half ton van.
Kfish said:
My previous rig was a 2017 Sienna AWD, while not as cool as my present 4runner that thing was the most useful rig ever. With back seats folded down flat, 2 middle captain chairs taken out, it could haul pretty much anything, 4x8 plywood sheets were a breeze. Even with the middle seats in we used to stuff 2 adult bikes and 2 mini bikes in the back.

You can remove those rear seats Brian and sell them :)
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for those interested, the Sienna had 43 inches of driver legroom through 2017, and then when the model changed in 2018 they reduced it to 41" of driver legroom. So for those of longer limb... Regarding the earlier models, Sienna used timing belts through 2007, changing to timing chains in 2008. When I asked a Toyota mechanic about Sienna maintenance such as transmission/transaxle changes, he replied 'do nothing but change the motor oil, plugs at 100K, and drive it like you stole it'
 
I always place FULL DEDICATION on HORSEPOWER. Aint about to see me in weak HORSEPOWER. I always ensure horsepower is at the utmost level of decision making when I'm in the CAR market. Always want to get in to the HORSEPOWER!!!
 
Brute said:
I have one on order…decided I need to think about giving up the rooftop tent and start to sleep inside the vehicle…
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Thomas Mitchell said:
I had the D130 Outbound for about a year but in the end it didn't get along with my use case as well as I'd hoped so I went back to a truck and a EV sport sedan daily driver. I spend a fair amount of time with my small rafts in the back of the truck running around trying to fish where there other people aren't. A lot more than I did camping or doing overloading type stuff. Ideally, I'll add a 4WD/AWD camper van to the mix but until I retire in a few years, I don't feel like I have the time to use it enough for it to be a rational investment.

Outbound - nice driving and cavernous back area, the biggest Defender with no third row and a flat cargo areView attachment 135024
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@Brute , did you get your Octa yet?

After a lot of seller's remorse, I ended saying WTF and got another Outbound 130. It's a sickness but I remind my wife remind that I barely drink, don't do drugs, cheat, and have never been in a casino... ;)

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