“ gun control “

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Emily27 said:
I'm not against people being conservative nor think I'm all knowing I haven't been weighing in on the original purpose of the thread because I know I don't know enough about the topic, but when he started talking about how if the constitution were ever amended people should rise up against the changes he started feeling to me like a south park character. In any other forums or online communities I've been a part of an account like that would just be a joke account, satirically spouting the most cartoonish opinions.
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I have no problem with the constitution being ammended. I only have a problem with some people, even a majority taking away rights explicitly written into the constitution.
 
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charles sullivan said:
The fact is that the form of government that they came up with was unable to end slavery without a war. It was unable to end Jim Crow and second class citizenship until sometime in the last 50ish years. It is exceptionally difficult to change as you point out with regards to the ERA.

The landed white men were the ruling class in the US. They retained their status and for the most part still do. So, they weren't at all for freedom for all, or liberty for all. And that is my point, we can't look to them or the government as they created as a beacon to head towards to find freedom and liberty because it is not there. It was there for a minority of the population but given that today we generally view people other that landed white men as humans deserving of equal protection, we need to look at them and their documents according to what they were. You can call that presentism or whatever, I call it logical.

The proof is in the pudding. A person in Wyoming has far more electoral power than one in Cali. That power is flexed in the form of the Supreme court and unequal representation for the chief executive and Senate. We are still paying for this founding father planned inequity. It's a shitty way to do business to value some humans over others, but that is the case still today. It's how the system was created and how it remains. It remains that way in part because people buy the freedom and liberty bullshit that was written and look past what the actual outcome was. So people are stupid enough to deify Jefferson et al. to the detriment of reason. They created a system that was difficult to change, distrustful of the majority and did not live up to the words that they themselves used to describe it. It's a fairytale.

And so that is my big issue with "originalism". We aren't in 1780 and our issues are different. We can't look to 1780 humans to solve 2023 problems. They don't share present day values unless you value unequal representation, slavery and women as second class citizens. They could not foretell the future. That isn't judging Jefferson and his buddies by todays standards, it's frustration that we can't govern today by todays standards because people think that the standards of 1780 are superior.
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For a guy who's not down with religion you really are into this "original sin* origin story.
 
FontinalisFin said:
I don't watch the evening drivel, moved on years ago, have you seen CNNs ratings, they are about to go bankrupt.
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I’m talking local Washington stations…keeping the state informed.
 
Roper said:
Maybe you should stick with those forums…
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That seems kind of harsh to the new member! Welcome to the forum @Emily27 , I hope to see some fishing-related content from you! These politics/cultural issues threads are a sideshow to the fantastic fishing and fly tying information here.

Edit: I see you posted a really nice quad wally wing caddis fly over on the what's in your vise thread.
 
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Zak said:
That seems kind of harsh to the new member! Welcome to the forum @Emily27 , I hope to see some fishing-related content from you! These politics/cultural issues threads are a sideshow to the fantastic fishing and fly tying information here.

Edit: I see you posted a really nice quad wally wing caddis fly over on the what's in your vise thread.
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Yeah, well I’m a crusty old curmudgeon, what did you expect?
 
Zak said:
That seems kind of harsh to the new member! Welcome to the forum @Emily27 , I hope to see some fishing-related content from you! These politics/cultural issues threads are a sideshow to the fantastic fishing and fly tying information here.

Edit: I see you posted a really nice quad wally wing caddis fly over on the what's in your vise thread.
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And they are relatively rare.
 
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I think Charles and I disagree as much or more than anyone else here. My only hope is that he gets lots of good time on the Skagit this season..
 
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It will be interesting to see where this bill goes in the state legislature. It is the number of mass shootings that drives demand for stricter gun control laws. How can you prevent mass shootings by legislation? They are a final plea for recognition and fame by a personality who feels powerless and/or wronged. Every mass shooter is counting on heavy media coverage of their final wretched act; their 15 minutes of fame in an otherwise unnoteworthy life. What if their name and life story was never reported outside a court room?
 
Rob Allen said:
I have no problem with the constitution being ammended. I only have a problem with some people, even a majority taking away rights explicitly written into the constitution.
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Your view is unconstitutional then, as nowhere in the constitution does it prohibit, or in any way make it unlawful to ammend the constitution by repealing existing ammendments.

A Commie is what ya are...
Unamerican , red wearing, commie.
:ROFLMAO:🤣:ROFLMAO:

"Elaborate prank, social experiment..."
🤣
Five Stars on Yelp !!!!

Carry on...
 
Emily27 said:
I know I'm pretty new to this forum so maybe I need to learn more about him but is Rob Allen just like an elaborate prank? some kind of social experiment? He talks like someone who would be called a fed in younger circles
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I've met Rob and talked with him a few times. I don't know him well, but I like and know him enough IRL and from internet forums to know his intentions are genuinely good. He's real; he just says unreal things occasionally. I've accused him of being binary, able to see things only in black or white, with few or no shades of gray. He disputes my assertion. I guess the readers of his posts should judge for themselves if they judge at all. And now he even speaks of himself in third person - the guy has talent!
 
Rob Allen said:
getting rid of anything in the bill or rights is very far worse.
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Uh oh, then I hope you didn't notice that during the aftermath of 9/11/2001 during the Bush II administration, the federal gov't. over-rode the 4th Amendment right to the writ of habeas corpus, which was then litigated to the SCOTUS, and the SCOTUS upheld it. BTW, I was and remain opposed to that legislation and SCOTUS ruling. Wanna' join me in my '60s refrain: "UP THE REVOLUTION!" ?
 
Salmo_g said:
Uh oh, then I hope you didn't notice that during the aftermath of 9/11/2001 during the Bush II administration, the federal gov't. over-rode the 4th Amendment right to the writ of habeas corpus, which was then litigated to the SCOTUS, and the SCOTUS upheld it. BTW, I was and remain opposed to that legislation and SCOTUS ruling. Wanna' join me in my '60s refrain: "UP THE REVOLUTION!" ?
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I was completely opposed to the patriot act. And it was an incredible waste of money.
That cyclone fence around Bonneville dam was sure a deterrent though...
 
Salmo_g said:
Except for the 800+ arrested so far with about 600 prosecuted and sentenced I think. Except for them, the others were engaged in peaceful protest, technically at least.
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How many thousands of people were there but did not break into the capital or were otherwise not violent?
 
Rob Allen said:
How many thousands of people were there but did not break into the capital or were otherwise not violent?
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The Ray Epps videos out. It was an op, the feds lured and opened gates to let people in. Capitol police let people in, video of all of it. The most non violent, gun free insurrection in the history of insurrections... compared to the summer of violent protests, a definite double standard in play. Should they have done it? No. Was heated speech and rhetoric bantered about, yea. We're a select few there with serious violent intentions? Probably. Insurrection, no, protest that got out of hand? Yes...

*To tie this into the gun control debate, I was down in the middle of those riots in Portland, on the street, I had to work, I was armed, and not with a single shot either.
 
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FontinalisFin said:
The Ray Epps videos out. It was an op, the feds lured and opened gates to let people in. Capitol police let people in, video of all of it. The most non violent, gun free insurrection in the history of insurrections... compared to the summer of violent protests, a definite double standard in play. Should they have done it? No. Was heated speech and rhetoric bantered about, yea. We're a select few there with serious violent intentions? Probably. Insurrection, no, protest that got out of hand? Yes...
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I tend to agreeish but I fully support the prosecution of those who entered the capital. Or any that were violent outside it.
As for Ray Epps, that needs to be investigated and not discounted out of hand by anyone serious about getting to the bottom of it all, which it has been.
 
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