Skagit, or sorta' Skagit head

Salmo_g

Salmo_g

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I need something along the lines of a 450 gr Skagit head that is 30 feet long or so. Ideally it would be a "beer can" with no taper. So the less taper, the better. I cast a 510 gr Air Flo Rage on another rod, and it handled tips quite well. I have a few Scandi heads in the 450 to low 500 gr weights, but the front taper is too fine to cast a 15' Rio Versa Tip without me putting a huge effort into it.

I looked for a 450 gr Rage, but apparently they have been discontinued, so no luck there. Is there something in the market place that I'm just not seeing, or do I need to look at my collection of longer, heavier heads and cut one down to 450 grains?
 
Salmo_g said:
I need something along the lines of a 450 gr Skagit head that is 30 feet long or so. Ideally it would be a "beer can" with no taper. So the less taper, the better. I cast a 510 gr Air Flo Rage on another rod, and it handled tips quite well. I have a few Scandi heads in the 450 to low 500 gr weights, but the front taper is too fine to cast a 15' Rio Versa Tip without me putting a huge effort into it.

I looked for a 450 gr Rage, but apparently they have been discontinued, so no luck there. Is there something in the market place that I'm just not seeing, or do I need to look at my collection of longer, heavier heads and cut one down to 450 grains?
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Long skagit head can only mean one thing - you've got a long rod. ;)

-Long rod
 
That translates to 12 wt level line. If you’re interested in diy and looping it yourself, I can search my stash of colored plastic spaghetti for a suitable chunk of 15 gr/ft?
 
I could be wrong but 450 gr is about a 7wt spey and 15ft tip seems too long that's why it won't cast. Tips should be 10 footers. You need more like 575gr 14ft 8wt rod to move a 15ft tip. A rage is a hybrid head. A skagit head will move more mass than the rage.
 
fatbillybob said:
I could be wrong but 450 gr is about a 7wt spey and 15ft tip seems too long that's why it won't cast. Tips should be 10 footers. You need more like 575gr 14ft 8wt rod to move a 15ft tip. A rage is a hybrid head. A skagit head will move more mass than the rage.
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I still have old stock Rio Skagit integrated lines in 450 gr that I've been casting 8 wt 15' Rio Versa tips with for years on a 7 wt 13' 4" CND Solstice. A 10 wt 15' tip would be an awkward challenge for the 450 gr Skagit, but not 8 wt.

Agreed that a traditional non-tapered "beer can" Skagit will move more mass than the Rage, but aside from old stock Skagits, every line I come across any more is tapered. The redeeming quality of the Rage is that it isn't tapered to as fine an end as other heads I've tried and looked at. A borrowed 510 gr Rage, at 30' long, cast 15' tips just fine on my 7136 Z-Axis. Unfortunately, I broke the tip section week before last, and it will take a while to get it replaced.
 
Salmo_g said:
I still have old stock Rio Skagit integrated lines in 450 gr that I've been casting 8 wt 15' Rio Versa tips with for years on a 7 wt 13' 4" CND Solstice. A 10 wt 15' tip would be an awkward challenge for the 450 gr Skagit, but not 8 wt.

Agreed that a traditional non-tapered "beer can" Skagit will move more mass than the Rage, but aside from old stock Skagits, every line I come across any more is tapered. The redeeming quality of the Rage is that it isn't tapered to as fine an end as other heads I've tried and looked at. A borrowed 510 gr Rage, at 30' long, cast 15' tips just fine on my 7136 Z-Axis. Unfortunately, I broke the tip section week before last, and it will take a while to get it replaced.
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Check the core 30 (Nextcast). Slightly longer skagit head that will turnover tips and cast good.

www.nextcastproducts.com

CORE 30

CORE 30 is a non-traditional long skagit head. Beside handling super heavy sinktip upto T14 and weighted flies, It provide a smooth control and casting . It performs well with all casting style including single spey with ease. Size (grains) FF & F1 Models Length (feet) Suggested Sinktip 450...
www.nextcastproducts.com www.nextcastproducts.com
 
Long_Rod_Silvers said:
Check the core 30 (Nextcast). Slightly longer skagit head that will turnover tips and cast good.

www.nextcastproducts.com

CORE 30

CORE 30 is a non-traditional long skagit head. Beside handling super heavy sinktip upto T14 and weighted flies, It provide a smooth control and casting . It performs well with all casting style including single spey with ease. Size (grains) FF & F1 Models Length (feet) Suggested Sinktip 450...
www.nextcastproducts.com www.nextcastproducts.com
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I looked at that, but the 450 gr head is only 24' long. Unfortunately, a deal breaker for me. It's 3' shorter than the old traditional Rio beer can Skagit that is 27' long. There is nothing magic about 27', but at least with a head that long I don't keep blowing my anchors while casting. And shorter heads like the Skagit Max, at 23', requires that I make two more strips of line to make the same length cast that I make using a 27' head. When fishing the Skagit, my usual cast is the head, tip, and 8 strips of line. Shorter heads mean making 10 strips of running line. That's an extra 25% all day long. Stripping all that extra running line doesn't do my sore elbow any favors.

The reason I'm looking for a head and not an integrated line (head + running line) is because I want one reel set up with monofilament running line for the express purpose of making some longer casts. Shorter Skagit or Scandi heads are counter to my purpose.
 
Salmo_g said:
I looked at that, but the 450 gr head is only 24' long. Unfortunately, a deal breaker for me. It's 3' shorter than the old traditional Rio beer can Skagit that is 27' long. There is nothing magic about 27', but at least with a head that long I don't keep blowing my anchors while casting. And shorter heads like the Skagit Max, at 23', requires that I make two more strips of line to make the same length cast that I make using a 27' head. When fishing the Skagit, my usual cast is the head, tip, and 8 strips of line. Shorter heads mean making 10 strips of running line. That's an extra 25% all day long. Stripping all that extra running line doesn't do my sore elbow any favors.

The reason I'm looking for a head and not an integrated line (head + running line) is because I want one reel set up with monofilament running line for the express purpose of making some longer casts. Shorter Skagit or Scandi heads are counter to my purpose.
Click to expand...

I'm a self taught intuitive guy. My learning conditions have always been on the river where the environment is so dynamic that the concept of casting with muscle memory, like grooving a golf stroke, is foreign to me. Question about blowing anchors with shorter head...why not just cant your rod 10 degrees and you got 3 ft for a slight modification of the D-loop? Don't we do that anyway while wading various depths de facto changing vertical rod height off the water and thus our casting stroke?
 
Not what you were asking for, but another option to consider if the goal is to cast a 15ft Rio tip. I use a Rio Short Head Spey on my 7130. The last 15' loops on just like a versa-tip line. I can't turn over big/weighted flies with it, but it's a pleasure to cast singles and snake rolls with all day long and have some sinking options. Getting double duty out of the tips ( I have a single hand versa-tip line in 7wt) helps offset the cost too.

n'mind, this line is integrated. You want to use mono for your shooting line..
 
Salmo_g said:
There is nothing magic about 27', but at least with a head that long I don't keep blowing my anchors while casting. And shorter heads like the Skagit Max, at 23', requires that I make two more strips of line to make the same length cast that I make using a 27' head. When fishing the Skagit, my usual cast is the head, tip, and 8 strips of line. Shorter heads mean making 10 strips of running line. That's an extra 25% all day long.
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This is so logical it hurts my head
 
Salmo_g said:
I looked at that, but the 450 gr head is only 24' long. Unfortunately, a deal breaker for me. It's 3' shorter than the old traditional Rio beer can Skagit that is 27' long. There is nothing magic about 27', but at least with a head that long I don't keep blowing my anchors while casting. And shorter heads like the Skagit Max, at 23', requires that I make two more strips of line to make the same length cast that I make using a 27' head. When fishing the Skagit, my usual cast is the head, tip, and 8 strips of line. Shorter heads mean making 10 strips of running line. That's an extra 25% all day long. Stripping all that extra running line doesn't do my sore elbow any favors.

The reason I'm looking for a head and not an integrated line (head + running line) is because I want one reel set up with monofilament running line for the express purpose of making some longer casts. Shorter Skagit or Scandi heads are counter to my purpose.
Click to expand...
Have you given this one a look? A bit of taper....
redsflyfishing.com

Airflo Superflo MAX Rage Compact // Hybrid Style Shooting Head330gr

Ultra supple coatings allow our Two Hand series of fly lines to literally fly! Energy normally absorbed in the process of casting/flexing the line is now transferred effortlessly for more powerful controlled deliveries regardless of temperature. The Rage Compact is designed to help you cast in...
redsflyfishing.com redsflyfishing.com
 
I find it hard to believe that no store in the OR/WA area has a 450 rage. The rage was designed with poly leaders, not tips in mind, but some people are able to make it work.

The Bridge Wintertide is a line that was designed to throw tips of 100 grains or lower like the Rio tips. It looks like the 450gr is 28 feet. There are a few shops in WA that sell bridge lines.

You can also contact flywerks, Steve sold the business to Trent Moses. You can tell them what specific rod, tips, and flies you want to use, and they can design a line specifically for you.
 
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