I know exactly what I'm missing...a near death experience...
NFR Talk to me about portaledges (climbing sleeping systems) - your likes/dislikes
- Thread starter Evan B
- Start date
Non-fishing related
I've actually done both cave diving and swimming with sharks ...deep wreck penetrations as well...and would feel far more comfortable doing these endeavors than hanging off a cliff face overnight...
Curious as to why Evan chose this topic for a thread?
Think I came across photos of them elsewhere and was reminded of my not wanting to use one. I assumed someone here would have some experiences to share so I wanted to lure them out.
Well I did see one down by Moab a few weeks ago. It looked like the fuckers slept in late as they were climbing out of it and started to ascend as we ate our lunch and watched 'em. Near as I can tell they went down from the top instead of up from the bottom. Is that cheating?
It's all about developing a comfort zone by slowly flooding it with exposure to a specific risk.
Fear of heights is very fundamental... young babies display aversion to heights (such as when crawling on opaque table tops that make a transition to transparent plexiglass).
During my mountaineering years it took steady and gradually increasing direct exposure to heights for me to become comfortable...and the aversion slowly returned after my climbing later gave way (due to aging and perhaps better judgment) to less vertical outdoor pursuits like hiking.
For me being in small craft offshore is terrifying at times because I have no idea where the 'envelope' of safe conditions resides. I rely on watching the behavior of folks that do know the envelope (sorta like watching flight attendant behavior on a turbulent flight/landing).
In a similar vein I was once quite comfortable on a motorcycle traveling amongst shitloads of vehicles on freeways like I-5 in Seattle during rush-hours. Now everytime I visit that megalopolis I wish I was driving a combat humvee.
Fear of heights is very fundamental... young babies display aversion to heights (such as when crawling on opaque table tops that make a transition to transparent plexiglass).
During my mountaineering years it took steady and gradually increasing direct exposure to heights for me to become comfortable...and the aversion slowly returned after my climbing later gave way (due to aging and perhaps better judgment) to less vertical outdoor pursuits like hiking.
For me being in small craft offshore is terrifying at times because I have no idea where the 'envelope' of safe conditions resides. I rely on watching the behavior of folks that do know the envelope (sorta like watching flight attendant behavior on a turbulent flight/landing).
In a similar vein I was once quite comfortable on a motorcycle traveling amongst shitloads of vehicles on freeways like I-5 in Seattle during rush-hours. Now everytime I visit that megalopolis I wish I was driving a combat humvee.
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Who's bringing one to the Swap & Shop for Evan to use??
Yard Sale
Life of the Party
I grew up bouldering in Yosemite. Never did any big climbs, I just liked the little stuff. 20 years later I was driving through Oregon with a friend and he wanted to stop at Smith Rocks. He was a sailing buddy I had gone off shore with before and I knew he was safe so I agreed. Got a couple hundred feet up and realized I was afraid of heights. Took a while to get down and now I get sweaty hands just looking at pictures of people standing on ledges.
So yeah. It's a hard no for me too. I can see the allure though.
I did kayaking for a while and was really enjoying it, but I soon saw that the really good people just keep pushing. Worked with a guy who was world class and he told me about when his best friend died. They just kept running harder and harder stuff until it killed one of them.
Risk is interesting. It's true it's cumulative and additive, and you take some risks to get to a place where a portaledge is needed.
Its also true that humans are generally pretty bad at assessing actual risk and understanding the numbers. I bet if you run the numbers, taking a boat out on puget sound for opening day salmon or shrimp season is much more likely lethal than big wall climbing. In 25+ years of climbing, I can think of maybe 2 people dying in a portaledge situation in north america (that's a light guess, I didn't look up numbers)?? Something like that... Didnt we lose something like 5+ people salmon fishing puget sound last year? I guarantee you that frequently riding a bike down the side of the road will kill you much faster than big wall climbing will, yet nobody would think that if Evan posted a biking picture.
It is quite true that climbing accidents get catastrophic and lethal very quickly if something goes wrong. That's no joke. Now that I have kids, and am older, I don't do anything big or serious any more. It has serious dangers for sure.
Its also true that humans are generally pretty bad at assessing actual risk and understanding the numbers. I bet if you run the numbers, taking a boat out on puget sound for opening day salmon or shrimp season is much more likely lethal than big wall climbing. In 25+ years of climbing, I can think of maybe 2 people dying in a portaledge situation in north america (that's a light guess, I didn't look up numbers)?? Something like that... Didnt we lose something like 5+ people salmon fishing puget sound last year? I guarantee you that frequently riding a bike down the side of the road will kill you much faster than big wall climbing will, yet nobody would think that if Evan posted a biking picture.
It is quite true that climbing accidents get catastrophic and lethal very quickly if something goes wrong. That's no joke. Now that I have kids, and am older, I don't do anything big or serious any more. It has serious dangers for sure.
Yes have swam around sharks ,did the open cave diving , inside ship wrecks ,plane wrecks etc , but hanging off a cliff sleeping just doesn't sound right .
My shittiest night big wall sleeping story: My first wall (May 2000) was "The Nose" right up the center of El Cap where the angle changes. We had no ledge, and our second night we were up at "Camp 6", roughly 2000-2400' up where it is near vertical to overhanging, but another party was there taking the good sleeping spot. So the three of us slept sitting on a ledge below them, maybe 8' wide and 1.5-2' deep. We had to sleep sitting up, our legs dangling over the edge, each of us leaning on the shoulder of of the person next to him (we were a party of 3), with the person on the end leaning against the heavy big wall bag that carries all your gear (commonly known as "the pig").
Would have been really, really, really nice to have a portaledge that night.
Would have been really, really, really nice to have a portaledge that night.
Yup...assessing (or even recognizing) relative risk is difficult for many folks. Somebody sees a wolf, cougar, coyote, large house cat, or there's the rare bear attack in the news, and everybody goes apeshit....but the multiple weekly traffic deaths, dog bites, burglaries, and assaults that regularly occur in the average large community results in a big collective yawn.
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As someone who has spent many nights sleeping in a hanging hammock above Yosemite valley, sleeping on a portaledge would be like staying in a 4 star hotel, but they hadn't been invented yet. Probably the worse thing about the hammock was how long it took each morning to straighten out the hammock induced banana shape that your body had assumed overnight....not many places for stretching exercises up there.
i'll never forget my first morning up there being awoken by the 'yosemite alarm clock'.... the sound of the trash trucks making their rounds below.
i'll never forget my first morning up there being awoken by the 'yosemite alarm clock'.... the sound of the trash trucks making their rounds below.
The question everyone really wants answered: pooping logistics.
Just a matter of having the high ground in relation to other parties?
SilverFly
Legend
Huge respect to those that can do this, but OH ... HELL ... NO!!!
The question everyone really wants answered: pooping logistics.
Just a matter of having the high ground in relation to other parties?
Hmm, I think you'd have to take into account windage, elevation, and TTV (Turd Terminal Velocity.) So something like a WWII Norton bombsight might be needed to avoid unpleasant surprises for those on the ground. Since TTV is dependent on aerodynamic drag coefficient (shape/density) it might even be hazardous to those below if you aren't well hydrated. Just say'n.
How far a drop before reaching terminal velocity?Huge respect to those that can do this, but OH ... HELL ... NO!!!
Hmm, I think you'd have to take into account windage, elevation, and TTV (Turd Terminal Velocity.) So something like a WWII Norton bombsight might be needed to avoid unpleasant surprises for those on the ground. Since TTV is dependent on aerodynamic drag coefficient (shape/density) it might even be hazardous to those below if you aren't well hydrated. Just say'n.
SilverFly
Legend
32 feet per second squared til TTV. For (similar?) comparison, human body terminal velocity is roughly 125 mph (183 fps). Safe bet any release on El Cap is TTV.
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Terminal veloshitty?
