Non-Fly Dirtbag kokanee

[Buzzy]

To expand a bit to the excellent starting point in a kokanee bait. White shoepeg corn is what one wants (smaller and more bite shape). Soaking that corn in the oil from a can of tuna has become a standard. I typically add some borax to my bait brew. I often also add some additional scent to the rig as I fish. Have some scent is a key to producing more fish, while most of the time I not sure that it makes a great difference which scent is used. However there are times some scent will out preform better than others. Scents to consider include some generic "kokanee scent", krill, garlic, herring oil, squid, and/or clam. After more than a decade of experimentation in hard-core kokanee fishing if limited to a single scent it would be clam and I hate garlic.

Other base baits that have proven successful include live fly maggots, small pieces of cured prawns/crawfish, little pieces of worm/nightcrawler and the power bait maggots.

Curt

Curt -
(Thread Drift): My two long time fishing buddies (both West Siders) used to come to Ephrata Friday afternoon of the day before the "opener*"; we'd head up to Lake Roosevelt, get our campsite set up at Spring Canyon and go fishing. Our kokanee techniques were crude to say the least but we were able, over several years, to catch some of the lake's kokanee with trout, walleye and smallmouth being part of the catch. Herb had THE HOT FLY. It was a simple streamer tied on a wet fly hook and it was ugly so we named it "Herb's Ugly**": orange and chartreuese chenille body with a soft hackle - that's all. We'd tip the fly with either a maggot, white corn or a chunk of nightcrawler and troll the Canyon or up and down th shore to the dam or run up to The "S" Basin. We didn't have electronics, no GPS, no cellphones (mid-1980's), no downriggers - just fly rods and full sinking lines. We were consistently inconsistent with our catching but sometimes, some years - the catching was quite good for those delicious fish.

* The Opener - Herb and his siblings would go "on the wagon" on New Year's Day and go off the wagon for the opener; some kind of family tradition. Herb, Keith and I looked forward to "the opener" as a time for old friends to get together and for Herb a time to tip back some of his home brewed beer.

** Herb's Ugly - Simple flies get modified (how many variations of a Hare's Ear are there?) all the time; I modified Herb's Ugly to include a trailing treble hook. The treble was supposed to increase catching soft mouthed kokanee and it provide three hook points (one point each for a maggot, worm and corn). So, @Brute - here's a few flies we used to use for kokanee:



Next to the bottom row, far right is the original "Herb's Ugly" and right above it a modified "Ugly".

 

[CRO]

I have found that keeping leader length behind 4inch dodgers at 14in or less has been the most productive. 10lb fluorocarbon leaders are fine unless you’re going after those Lake Roosevelt fish that can look like adult Sockeye.

 

[Smalma]

Buzzy -
NIce! Have to wonder how many "Ugly" patterns there are? During the 1960s and 70s I tied and fish a pattern a lot that my fishing partners dubbed "Curt's Ugly".

As the kokanee get larger (say over 15 inches) they seem to be more apt to take those larger presentations. The major food source of kokanee are daphnia, often the food item in theirs stomachs. See a few chironomids, the occasional other insect or tiny fish fry. As I mentioned earlier have caught those surface kokanee on emergers and a few fish with a chironomid behind a dodger. So they can be taken occasionally on our flies nothing seems to compete with baited lures behind a dodger of some kind.

By far my most successful "kokanee flies" have been a smaller version of my "sockeye fly" - pink hackle with crystal flash wing and perhaps the best "fly" has been two single hooks with 2 strands of flashabou baited with corn.

CRO-
As a general rule the more active the lure behind the dodger the longer my leader. For example, if fishing an apex my leader might be 30", a spinner or spin-n-glo the leader might be 12 inches or so while a small hoochie or couple bare hooks might be only 8 inches long. Especially on those smaller/least active lures have found that a stiff leader can be an advantage - they seem to transmit the dodger action better to the lure. Often use the old reliable Ultra Green and may step in leader strength (stiffer) to the largest I can effectively tie with my hooks. The kokanee don't seem to be very leader shy and one advantage is those heavier leaders withstand the abuse of catching a number of kokanee.

Curt

 

[Wanative]

It looks like I opened the proverbial can of worms, oops corn with this thread.

 

[John Svahn]

I too have been bit by the kokanee bug. Out of interest, as opposed to needing a better option, I started tying my own hoochies out of bucktail on tubes. They work pretty well on our local interior Norcal reserviors. Gotta be pink though IMO

 

[speedbird]

I gotta save up for an old crappy skiff when I graduate, so much fun fishing to be had with a small boat that isn't practical with my families ocean boat

 

[SeaRunner]

I got into kokanee last year on Lake Washington. They are really pretty fish. One of the interesting things is that while the green daphnia goop was probably the most common stomach item of the fish I cleaned, I cleaned one or two with small longfin smelt in them, as well as several fish whose stomachs were just stuffed with small yellow perch fry, maybe 0.5-0.75" long. I haven't heard any reports of kokanee being caught in Lake Washington this year.

 

[JACKspASS]

I didn't realize there was a fishable population of kokanee in Lake Washington. What is the differentiation between a juvenile sockeye and kokanee?

 

[Smalma]

Kokanee and sockeye are the same species, just different life histories. It possible that in a lake with both there might be a detectable genetic difference between the two or they may be part of the same population. For us anglers we could not separate the juvenile kokanee and sockeye, they would be of the same size up to the point where the juvenile sockeye smolt and migrate out the system. Since we generally only catch adult kokanee in a system like Lake Washington kokanee adults would be roughly 14 to 16 inches while the adult sockeye would average 4 or 5 pounds.

Historically there were thought to have kokanee using many of the creek tributaries to both of the lakes (Sammamish and Washington) in the system. It is unknow whether pre settlement there were sockeye returning to the lake though since the water was open to anadromous fish and there were kokanee they could well have been in the lake. By the period of the early 1900s to mid-1930s there were no sockeye noted in the system and efforts were made to introduce sockeye into the system with the major effort occurring in 1937 where roughly 2.5 million fry from Baker Lake were introduce into Issaquah Cree, Bear Creek and Cedar river (which had been diverted to the lake in 1916). There was small introduce a decade or two earlier and number other small introductions post 1937 including some from Cultus Lake (a Southern BC Lake). It appears that following the 1937 introduction sockeye were commonly seen returning to the lake though in relatively small numbers. The population took a jump in abundances in the mid/late 1970s with a very large return in 1988. While returns were variable during the 1980s to the early 2000s there returns were large enough some year to support target fisheries both an in lake recreational fishery and a tribal net fisheries. During the period while kokanee were still in the system they were at low numbers likely due to changes in the tributary creeks which served as spawning areas and competition with their anadromous cousins. With the collapse of the sockeye population over the past couple decades it would not be a surprise that kokanee would find an available niche in the lake.

It should be noted that there are both land lock coho and Chinook in the lake and it is possible that some of those fish could mis-Identified as kokanee.

Curt

 

[Chucker]

Kokanee and sockeye are the same species, just different life histories. It possible that in a lake with both there might be a detectable genetic difference between the two or they may be part of the same population. For us anglers we could not separate the juvenile kokanee and sockeye, they would be of the same size up to the point where the juvenile sockeye smolt and migrate out the system. Since we generally only catch adult kokanee in a system like Lake Washington kokanee adults would be roughly 14 to 16 inches while the adult sockeye would average 4 or 5 pounds.

Historically there were thought to have kokanee using many of the creek tributaries to both of the lakes (Sammamish and Washington) in the system. It is unknow whether pre settlement there were sockeye returning to the lake though since the water was open to anadromous fish and there were kokanee they could well have been in the lake. By the period of the early 1900s to mid-1930s there were no sockeye noted in the system and efforts were made to introduce sockeye into the system with the major effort occurring in 1937 where roughly 2.5 million fry from Baker Lake were introduce into Issaquah Cree, Bear Creek and Cedar river (which had been diverted to the lake in 1916). There was small introduce a decade or two earlier and number other small introductions post 1937 including some from Cultus Lake (a Southern BC Lake). It appears that following the 1937 introduction sockeye were commonly seen returning to the lake though in relatively small numbers. The population took a jump in abundances in the mid/late 1970s with a very large return in 1988. While returns were variable during the 1980s to the early 2000s there returns were large enough some year to support target fisheries both an in lake recreational fishery and a tribal net fisheries. During the period while kokanee were still in the system they were at low numbers likely due to changes in the tributary creeks which served as spawning areas and competition with their anadromous cousins. With the collapse of the sockeye population over the past couple decades it would not be a surprise that kokanee would find an available niche in the lake.

It should be noted that there are both land lock coho and Chinook in the lake and it is possible that some of those fish could mis-Identified as kokanee.

Curt

I have heard is that the kokanee are fry from the cedar river hatchery that have not managed to make it out via the ship canal, though I am not sure how that was determined, or even whether it is actually just idle speculation - it is at least third hand info.

A kokanee fishery in the big lake might actually be a good outcome, given the total demise of the sockeye fishery. I can’t see any prospect of the sockeye ever reaching a fishable level again. Too many things seem to have shifted since there was a fishery, and on top of that, the sea lion predation issue at the locks is not going away. Yesterday there were 50+ sea lions hanging out on the Shilshole breakwater…

 

[SeaRunner]

Dr. Jeff Jensen at UW Bothell is doing work on Lk WA kokanee, including trying to figure out the make up of the population between residuals and natives. He has a blog which can be found with a simple google search.

As best I can tell the population fluctuates pretty heavily year to year, with some big years every couple of years. Last year was one of them.

 

[Greg Armstrong]

I saw a school (maybe 30 or 40 fish) of Kokanee in the Sammamish Slough in the fall. This was between Woodinville and Redmond about five years ago.

They were 15”-16” long and in full red spawning colors. It would indicate Lk Washington fish headed for Sammamish tributaries.
It was cool to see them, as several of us watched them moving up the slough.

 

[Smalma]

Given that it is likely that many of those LW kokanee are spawning in the various small creeks entering the lake and the amount of urban development in those watersheds can we really be surprised that their abundance is highly variable?

Curt

 

[SeaRunner]

Not surprising at all! But it is interesting, especially the recent trend of strong year classes every 3 years.

 

[Tom Butler]

Given that it is likely that many of those LW kokanee are spawning in the various small creeks entering the lake and the amount of urban development in those watersheds can we really be surprised that their abundance is highly variable?

Curt

This was my experience when younger, some years lots of silvers in the creeks, some years more bows and cutts. It would even vary between Thornton and Lyons. Another reason we took up c&r and flies, lots of the silvers would have tiny egg or milt sacs forming and would be present seemingly through the seasons then.
Went for a walk a few weeks ago when I was a mom's, could still see fish occupying the same historic lies. Kinda cool. Fish can be pretty resilient.

 

[Wanative]

Another batch of fatties today.
They are plumping up nicely.
Little Chief here they come.

 

[Stonedfish]

Nice work Fred!
@Wanative AKA The Kokanee Killer
SF

 

[Buzzy]

Another batch of fatties today.
They are plumping up nicely.
Little Chief here they come.

Fred - I hear the dirtbag kokanee at a lake with a launch 66.7 miles north of my house has koke's pushing 5 pounds............. so the rumor mill says.

 

[Wanative]

Fred - I hear the dirtbag kokanee at a lake with a launch 66.7 miles north of my house has koke's pushing 5 pounds............. so the rumor mill says.

I'm going to come visit in the near future.