NFR NFL 2023 Season

[charles sullivan]

Pats have a lot more problems than just a QB. Not even sure Brady could carry that team.

Brady was a different cat. He won with some bad offensive supporting casts. It's important to not turn the ball over.

Funny, I was just taking a break and reading the Boston Globe. One writer made the case that if the Pats had Joe Flacco, they'd have 7 wins. I tend to agree. I thing they are a .500 team with Geno Smith/ Flacco /Minshew at QB. It's hard to overstate how bad Jones has been. He is the statistical equivalent of Zach Wilson. Wilson is a QB for the Jets! The Jets QB!

Having said that, the Pats are a bad offensive football team with a lot of holes to fill. They are a very good to great defensive football team. All of their issues are on one side of the ball. Even with the limited offensive talent, they are a .500 team with average QB play or just a QB that doesn't throw it to the wrong team repeatedly. Anything above that and who knows. I'm not saying that Mahomes or Jackson gets them to the SB but they may get them to the 2nd round.

That is the thing with QB's. Either you have one or you don't and you are not going to be a contender without a very good one. All of the division leaders have a QB that is playing as a top 10 QB except the Bucs who are 7-7. Tua, Purdy, Prescott, Goff, Mahomes, Jackson, Lawrence, Mayfield.

I understand that you can make the case that those QB's numbers are good due to their surrounding cast. Tua and Purdy have some excellent players around them for sure, but both limit their int's. The fact is though that there are no 9-10 win teams who have not had excellent QB play. Ask anyone who watches NE or the Jets how important the position is. Both have excellent defenses but without a QB you are screwed. They hold the ball in their hands after all.

 

[mcswny]

You’re way too young to remember when the Bear’s 335 lb William “The fridge” Perry crushed everyone for a goal line touchdown In the ‘85 Superbowl!

Sure am! But I can tell you this. I'd rather watch someone named The Fridge barreling through a line rather than a rugby scrum.

 

[Mossback]

Next year that tush push will not be around is my guess. You can already see it morphing into lineman pushing running backs forwards on rushing plays anywhere on the field, looks like a scrum. Probably going to be a case where the lineman pushing (and pulling even though that isn't legal, but you see it in these scrums) changes the outcome of a game, or a serious injury occurs. For decades it was not legal, and will return to that status.

 

[Evan B]

Brady was a different cat. He won with some bad offensive supporting casts. It's important to not turn the ball over.

Funny, I was just taking a break and reading the Boston Globe. One writer made the case that if the Pats had Joe Flacco, they'd have 7 wins. I tend to agree. I thing they are a .500 team with Geno Smith/ Flacco /Minshew at QB. It's hard to overstate how bad Jones has been. He is the statistical equivalent of Zach Wilson. Wilson is a QB for the Jets! The Jets QB!

Having said that, the Pats are a bad offensive football team with a lot of holes to fill. They are a very good to great defensive football team. All of their issues are on one side of the ball. Even with the limited offensive talent, they are a .500 team with average QB play or just a QB that doesn't throw it to the wrong team repeatedly. Anything above that and who knows. I'm not saying that Mahomes or Jackson gets them to the SB but they may get them to the 2nd round.

That is the thing with QB's. Either you have one or you don't and you are not going to be a contender without a very good one. All of the division leaders have a QB that is playing as a top 10 QB except the Bucs who are 7-7. Tua, Purdy, Prescott, Goff, Mahomes, Jackson, Lawrence, Mayfield.

I understand that you can make the case that those QB's numbers are good due to their surrounding cast. Tua and Purdy have some excellent players around them for sure, but both limit their int's. The fact is though that there are no 9-10 win teams who have not had excellent QB play. Ask anyone who watches NE or the Jets how important the position is. Both have excellent defenses but without a QB you are screwed. They hold the ball in their hands after all.

Yeah, I think many/most teams could get by with a middle-of-the-road QB and giving them a strong supporting cast. But like is happening to the Pats - you put in a bottom tier QB, nothing is going to fix it.

I just think a mid-tier QB on a team friendly contract with a strong supporting cast should be the goal vs a record breaking contract, 30%+ of the cap type "elite" qb and mediocre talent to support him. Even in that last scenario, seems like a lot of these massive contract guys don't play up to the price tag once paid (but again, that's partially because the team can now not afford to give them a good team around them).

 

[mcswny]

Next year that tush push will not be around is my guess. You can already see it morphing into lineman pushing running backs forwards on rushing plays anywhere on the field, looks like a scrum. Probably going to be a case where the lineman pushing (and pulling even though that isn't legal, but you see it in these scrums) changes the outcome of a game, or a serious injury occurs. For decades it was not legal, and will return to that status.

Im shocked there hasnt been more injuries

 

[SurfnFish]

Bill Walsh on drafting a QB​

To become a great quarterback, there must be instincts and intuition. If throwing a ball were the only aspect of playing quarterback, then this would be an easy position to evaluate. However, because of the dynamic role he plays on the team, a quarterback must have physical, mental, emotional and instinctive traits that go well beyond the mere ability to pass a football. He will be the one on the field who is running the team. His teammates must believe in him or it may not matter how much physical ability he has. If he is courageous and intensely competitive, then other players will know and respect that. This will be a foundation for becoming a leader.
Arm strength is somewhat misleading. Some players can throw 80 yards, but they aren't good passers. Good passing has to do with accuracy, timing, and throwing a ball with touch so it is catchable. This all involves understanding a system, the receivers in the system, and having great anticipation. It is a plus to be able to throw a ball on a line for 35 yards, but not if it is off target or arrives in such a way that it is difficult to catch.
You look at how complete an inventory of throws a quarterback possesses -- from screen passes to timed short passes to medium range passes and down the field throws.
There have been quarterbacks of greatness, Hall of Fame quarterbacks, who didn't have a complete inventory of passes. But you're looking to see the potential of the quarterback in each area. You can see where the emphasis of the offense would be if he were with your team.
A quick delivery , one that is not telegraphed to help the defense, gives the quarterback an advantage when he finds his intended target. That's when it is essential to get the ball "up and gone'' with no wasted motion. Some of this can be acquired by learning proper technique. But to a certain degree, a quick release is related to a quarterback's reaction time between spotting his receiver and getting the ball "up and gone.''
Touch is important, especially in a medium range passing game. One of Joe Montana's most remarkable skills was putting the right touch on a pass so that it was easily catchable by a receiver, who often did not have to break stride.
The ability to read defenses is not something that players have learned to a high degree coming out of college. Even if they have, the pro defenses are very different. But most systems require quarterbacks to look at primary and secondary receivers, usually based on the defense that confronts him. You can see if he locates that secondary receiver -- or maybe even an emergency outlet receiver -- with ease or with a sense of urgency.
You can see which quarterbacks handle these situations with grace. These are the types who have a chance to perform with consistency in the NFL.
Mobility and an ability to avoid a pass rush are crucial. Some quarterbacks use this mobility within the pocket just enough so they are able to move and pass when they "feel" a rush. But overall quickness and agility can make a remarkable difference.
Quarterbacks must be able to function while injured. The pro season is about twice as long and more punishing than a college season. They are vulnerable to getting hit hard every time they pass. They must be able to avoid being rattled, get up and show they are in control and can continue to lead the offense.
The single trait that separates great quarterbacks from good quarterbacks is the ability to make the great, spontaneous decision, especially at a crucial time. The clock is running down and your team is five points behind. The play that was called has broken down and 22 players are moving in almost unpredictable directions all over the field.
This is where the great quarterback uses his experience, vision, mobility and what we will call spontaneous genius. He makes something good happen. This, of course, is what we saw in Joe Montana when he pulled out those dramatic victories for Notre Dame.

 

[Yard Sale]

Brady was a different cat. He won with some bad offensive supporting casts. It's important to not turn the ball over.

Funny, I was just taking a break and reading the Boston Globe. One writer made the case that if the Pats had Joe Flacco, they'd have 7 wins. I tend to agree. I thing they are a .500 team with Geno Smith/ Flacco /Minshew at QB. It's hard to overstate how bad Jones has been. He is the statistical equivalent of Zach Wilson. Wilson is a QB for the Jets! The Jets QB!

Having said that, the Pats are a bad offensive football team with a lot of holes to fill. They are a very good to great defensive football team. All of their issues are on one side of the ball. Even with the limited offensive talent, they are a .500 team with average QB play or just a QB that doesn't throw it to the wrong team repeatedly. Anything above that and who knows. I'm not saying that Mahomes or Jackson gets them to the SB but they may get them to the 2nd round.

That is the thing with QB's. Either you have one or you don't and you are not going to be a contender without a very good one. All of the division leaders have a QB that is playing as a top 10 QB except the Bucs who are 7-7. Tua, Purdy, Prescott, Goff, Mahomes, Jackson, Lawrence, Mayfield.

I understand that you can make the case that those QB's numbers are good due to their surrounding cast. Tua and Purdy have some excellent players around them for sure, but both limit their int's. The fact is though that there are no 9-10 win teams who have not had excellent QB play. Ask anyone who watches NE or the Jets how important the position is. Both have excellent defenses but without a QB you are screwed. They hold the ball in their hands after all.

Zack Wilson, Trey Lance, Mac Jones. What was supposed to be a killer draft for QBs turned out pretty crappy. At least you guys didn't trade the moon for Jones...

 

[skyriver]

I don't think anyone missed Jamal....

Maybe the Eagles did...

 

[charles sullivan]

Yeah, I think many/most teams could get by with a middle-of-the-road QB and giving them a strong supporting cast. But like is happening to the Pats - you put in a bottom tier QB, nothing is going to fix it.

I just think a mid-tier QB on a team friendly contract with a strong supporting cast should be the goal vs a record breaking contract, 30%+ of the cap type "elite" qb and mediocre talent to support him. Even in that last scenario, seems like a lot of these massive contract guys don't play up to the price tag once paid (but again, that's partially because the team can now not afford to give them a good team around them).

Those mid tier guys don't have 9-10 wins right now though. I totally understand what you are saying. The Eagles won with Foles but outside of that most recent SB winners had a high paid QB or one that was destined to be one on a rookie deal.
In my opinion, the expensive QB's are generally worth it provided that they make players around them better. It will be interesting to see what happens when Tua and Purdy get paid. We will see if Purdy is an All-pro after SF can't surround him with Deebo and McCaffery etc. Those Shannahan style offenses are just different. The ones that are being super successful with it have a whole lot of high paid talent around a QB on a rookie deal (Purdy), or a cheap deal (Tua). It will be interesting to see what those teams do when the deals are up.
The recent list of Superbowl champions indicates that you likely need a fantastic QB. Maybe this will change with some changes to the modern offenses.
What I do know is that drafting a QB and surrounding him with a poor line and no talent outside is a recipe to break a QB. See the Jets for the last 20 years.

 

[Dr. Magill]

Regarding the push - the zebras could whistle the play dead when forward progress stops or is stalled
They could do that on every play
The ball carrier gets the yardage back if they push him for a loss the way it is now

 

[mcswny]

Guys, let's be clear on what DOESN'T make you a good QB.

 

[Stonedfish]

My least favorite NFL player ever, Cam Newton recently called Brock Purdy a game manager.
Stathead Football posted this comparison before this weekends games based on their age 24 seasons.
SF

 

[mcswny]

My least favorite NFL player ever, Cam Newton recently called Brock Purdy a game manager.
Stathead Football posted this comparison before this weekends games based on their age 24 seasons.
SF

View attachment 95562

A couple things. This whole Cam Newton thing is absurd.

1. I'm happy to concede that Cam NEVER had the weapons Purdy does. Ever. So yeah, he has that.
2. With that being said, if he's going to call Purdy a Game Manager, can we call him a Running Back, not a QB.
3. His most recent comment that if he was put on the 49ers team today, with this squad, he'd have more success than Purdy is having is a god damn hilarious dream. I don't remember exactly what his stats were during his last season with the Patriots but I'm pretty sure he had like a 1:2 or 1:3 TD/INT ratio.

I've never said, and don't believe that Purdy is the next Brady/Montana, etc (although, I wouldn't be mad if that were true). All I've said is that he is a GOOD quarterback. Not average, not a game manager, but a good quarterback. Average quarterbacks still make good throws (See Drew Lock last night), good quarterbacks make those throws every game and if you actually watch the 49ers, not just stats, etc, you will see those throws every game.

 

[charles sullivan]

A couple things. This whole Cam Newton thing is absurd.

1. I'm happy to concede that Cam NEVER had the weapons Purdy does. Ever. So yeah, he has that.
2. With that being said, if he's going to call Purdy a Game Manager, can we call him a Running Back, not a QB.
3. His most recent comment that if he was put on the 49ers team today, with this squad, he'd have more success than Purdy is having is a god damn hilarious dream. I don't remember exactly what his stats were during his last season with the Patriots but I'm pretty sure he had like a 1:2 or 1:3 TD/INT ratio.

I've never said, and don't believe that Purdy is the next Brady/Montana, etc (although, I wouldn't be mad if that were true). All I've said is that he is a GOOD quarterback. Not average, not a game manager, but a good quarterback. Average quarterbacks still make good throws (See Drew Lock last night), good quarterbacks make those throws every game and if you actually watch the 49ers, not just stats, etc, you will see those throws every game.

All QB's are game managers. That is their job first and foremost. Those that can't manage the game are bad QB's. I'll never understand how that became an insult.

I think Purdy may be a great QB. We will see. He certainly is playing great.

Montana was picked in the 3rd round. Brady at 199. There is no need for your QB to be a 1st round high draft pick.

 

[mcswny]

All QB's are game managers. That is their job first and foremost. Those that can't manage the game are bad QB's. I'll never understand how that became an insult.

I'll accept this

 

[Mossback]

Merry Christmas Mcswny...

 

[SurfnFish]

Manning and Brady won SB's at end of careers with fading arm strength because both understood when the defense is winning the play don't make it worse, take the loss and go again. Way too many QB's trying to play hero ball and end up throwing interceptions, unwilling to accept the play just didn't work, losing games instead of just a down.
As to Purdy, lotta has-beens/never-was piling on him, nothing but pure jealousy. Hell, even the Boy Scouts are piling on.

 

[mcswny]

Merry Christmas Mcswny...
View attachment 95575

If he wins MVP, I’m getting two: one for you, and one for Dime.

 

[mcswny]

Manning and Brady won SB's at end of careers with fading arm strength because both understood when the defense is winning the play don't make it worse, take the loss and go again. Way too many QB's trying to play hero ball and end up throwing interceptions, unwilling to accept the play just didn't work, losing games instead of just a down.
As to Purdy, lotta has-beens/never-was piling on him, nothing but pure jealousy. Hell, even the Boy Scouts are piling on.
View attachment 95580

I mean, that’s a pretty sweet look Cam has going on here.

 

[skyriver]

Looked like he gave him a shoulder. Not much, but we’ll have to see what the NFL has to say. I don’t think they want staffers interacting with players like that, physical or not. The fact Brown pushed him back will likely raise attention to the incident.
Maybe he’ll get the big Dom treatment of banishment to the press box.
SF

I think the staffer honestly didn't know they were going to hit. Brown actually ran into him since he pushed himself that way trying to give Jackson a shove. I think it's nothing. If anything, they'll tell A.J. to knock it off. He looked like a chump there. Oh, and Troy Aikman is a terrible announcer.

Great win for the Hawks. Hurts looked miserably sick. I assume the flu, bad cold or covid, but it doesn't matter how you get Ws this time of year. Can the Hawks win a playoff game?? Who knows. I mean, every one is a playoff game for us now.
All it takes (as long as guys are healthy) is a big win and some momentum to get a 50/50 team hot. An area where Pete is one of the best. Not that it will change his mind on fielding punts, but....nope, I won't go there!

BTW, wore my #81 Golden Tate jersey from 2013 during the game since he raised the flag last night. Some real #showtimetate energy in the building. You know, now that Russ is gone and all.